";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"https://wptavern.com/mary-hubbard-to-be-the-new-executive-director-of-wordpress-org\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3329:\"<p>Matt Mullenweg has <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/proud-mary/\">announced</a> that Mary Hubbard will take over as the new Executive Director of WordPress.org on 21st October, 2024, following the resignation of <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/thank-you-josepha-wordpress-executive-director-resigns\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a>. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mary is taking on this new role after stepping down as the Head of TikTok Americas, Governance and Experience. <strong>She is not a stranger to the WordPress arena, having worked at Automattic from 2020 to 2023 as GM Marketplace and Chief Experience/Product Officer for WordPress.com. </strong>Her diverse experience also includes roles at TruRating, Assurant, Walmart, and eBay. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Matt expressed his enthusiasm, stating, “I’m very excited to have Mary on board. :)”. He also said that &#8220;she has deep knowledge of WordPress and expertise across business, product, marketplaces, program management, and governance.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When asked if Mary’s appointment is a “1:1 backfill for Josepha&#8217;s role or if her scope will be different?” <a href=\"https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41781008\">Matt said</a>, “<strong>The scope will be significantly broader as Mary brings many talents to the ecosystem.”</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mary will be an Automattic employee and she will work for the WordPress project. She steps into the position during a challenging time, as <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/159-employees-leave-automattic-after-accepting-the-alignment-offer\">159 employees</a>, including the former executive director, Josepha, left Automattic after accepting the Alignment Offer. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Community Response&nbsp;</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The community is cautiously optimistic in the light of the recent events.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/marybaum/status/1843817143223366100\"><img width=\"500\" height=\"124\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-3-500x124.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-174475\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/jamesgiroux/status/1843741806162522192\"><img width=\"500\" height=\"414\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-9-500x414.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-174483\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/mattbeck/status/1843757060976193979\"><img width=\"500\" height=\"226\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-5-500x226.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-174477\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/arniepalmer/status/1843754329900998753\"><img width=\"500\" height=\"356\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-6-500x356.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-174478\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/kellie/status/1843748495653822651\"><img width=\"500\" height=\"182\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-7-500x182.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-174479\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/ellenbauer/status/1843744793538781229\"><img width=\"500\" height=\"275\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-8-500x275.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-174480\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<p>Automattic&#8217;s last big hire was <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/pedraum-pardehpoosh-joins-automattic-as-vp-of-product\">Pedraum Pardehpoosh</a> , who joined as VP of Product.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 09 Oct 2024 14:45:44 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:22;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:99:\"WPTavern: #140 – Donata Stroink-Skillrud on Privacy Policies and Legal Obligations for Businesses\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=173874\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:113:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/140-donata-stroink-skillrud-on-privacy-policies-and-legal-obligations-for-businesses\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:45977:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, privacy policies and legal obligations for businesses.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL in to most podcast players. If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today, we have Donata Stroink-Skillrud. Donata is an attorney licensed in Illinois and a certified information privacy professional. She&#8217;s the president and legal engineer of Termageddon, a SaaS that generates website policies and helps keep them up to date with changing legislation. Donata is also a fellow of the American Bar Foundation, Chair of the American Bar Associations e-Privacy Committee and Program Committee, member of the American Bar Association Cyber Legal Task Force, and the American Bar Association&#8217;s representative to the United Nations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Donata will take us through the ever-changing topic of privacy laws, highlighting the challenges posed to businesses to comply with a myriad of regulations. She talks about the global trend of updating privacy laws to keep up with rapid technological advancements, and new capabilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We touch upon the significant moral and legal responsibilities tied to use a data management. Donata stresses the importance of privacy by design, which integrates privacy measures from the starts to the end of a project life cycle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>She shares real life examples of common pitfalls, such as misleading cookie banners, and offers best practices for embedding privacy in web development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Donata explains the importance of including disclaimers in contracts to mitigate legal liabilities, and provides actionable resources, including her own website policies waiver, which helps website builders navigate the complexities of legal compliance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also discuss the landscape of international laws applicability, the high cost of specialized legal compliance, and how you need to be mindful of what&#8217;s coming in the next few years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re keen to find out more about the current legal landscape, or just want some more knowledge to ensure your projects are legally sound and ethically responsible, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Donata Stroink-Skillrud.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by Donata Stroink-Skillrud. How are you doing Donata?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:38] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Doing great. Thank you so much for having me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You&#8217;re very welcome. Donata is joining me in Oregon, we&#8217;re at WordCamp US. And, Donata, I&#8217;m guessing you haven&#8217;t done your presentation yet, because nobody&#8217;s done a presentation yet. Are you feeling confident? Is this something you do regularly?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:51] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> It is something that I do on a regular basis. I am a textbook over preparer so I have 80 slides, and only 45 minutes to go through all of them. So I&#8217;m a little nervous about that. But I had my slides ready like two months ago, I&#8217;ve just been reviewing them over and over again, so hopefully I&#8217;ll do okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Better to be prepared than not prepared.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:11] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> I&#8217;m always over prepared, and then it just ends up, I don&#8217;t go through like half the things that I need to talk about, so we&#8217;ll see.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, you&#8217;re a lawyer, over-prepared, I guess, in that profession is good. So, okay, that introduces us to the bio. So you&#8217;re on the podcast today, and we&#8217;re going to be talking about the legal side of WordPress, and the web industry, and what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you want to just give us your little potted bio? I know that you sent one to me, I don&#8217;t know how much of that you want to use. But tell us just a little bit about your background, especially on the law side of things, because I feel that&#8217;s where we need to know that you&#8217;ve got the chops to talk about what we&#8217;re talking about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:43] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. So to start on the law side, I&#8217;m not providing legal advice on this podcast. So if you are looking for that, I would recommend talking to a lawyer in your area. But I am an attorney licensed in Illinois, and a certified information privacy professional. I&#8217;m also the president and legal engineer behind Termageddon, which has generated tens of thousands of privacy policies, and kept them up to date with changing laws.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Outside of that job, I&#8217;m a fellow at the American Bar Foundation. At the American Bar Association, I&#8217;m the chair of the e-Privacy Committee, member of the Cybersecurity Legal Task Force, and also member of the Science and Technology Council, and I&#8217;m actually the new ABA representative to the United Nations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so you are the real deal basically. You&#8217;ve got all of the chops, so that&#8217;s really nice to hear.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So your presentation, when it&#8217;s finally done, is called Building WordPress Websites with Privacy by Data in Mind, and Privacy by Data is encapsulated in quotes. This feels like it was a really big trend a few years ago. Everybody seemed to be concerned about privacy, and then it kind of seems like it went off the boil a little bit. And I&#8217;m presuming that you are saying, no, no, no, this is still something that&#8217;s very important.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Where are we at with privacy? What&#8217;s the state of play? I don&#8217;t know if you can encapsulate that in just a few short sentences.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:58] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So I think when it comes to privacy, we&#8217;re kind of the frogs that are boiling in the water now. So, you know, you had GDPR that came out, and everybody was really excited about that, and that was huge. And that&#8217;s continuing, in the sense that there are dozens and dozens of fines issued every month, for privacy violations under GDPR. So if you want to check that out, that&#8217;s under enforcementtracker.com. And it&#8217;s anywhere from Facebook to a person who doesn&#8217;t even have a business that&#8217;s been fined.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the US it&#8217;s a little bit different, in the sense that we have this kind of hodgepodge of laws. So each state is proposing and passing its own law, because we do have federal laws for healthcare data, or children&#8217;s data, but not for things that are usually collected by websites, like names, and emails and stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But what&#8217;s really interesting, the newest trend in the United States that we&#8217;ve seen in the last few months is adapting really old privacy laws. So for example, the California Invasion of Privacy Act, 30-year-old privacy law, was meant to protect Californians from eavesdropping on landline phone calls, but it&#8217;s adapted to websites. So every day there&#8217;s over a dozen lawsuits filed in California for websites that use tools like IP intelligence tools, Facebook pixel, things like that, without consent from a California user.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Very similar, under the Video Privacy Protection Act, which is a federal law, it was meant to protect people&#8217;s video rental histories. So from places like Blockbuster, you couldn&#8217;t share what videos you rented from Blockbuster with a third party. Well, that&#8217;s been adapted to websites as well. So if you have a website that has a YouTube video, for example, and Meta pixel is tracking who watched that video, and you&#8217;re showing them ads, and you didn&#8217;t get consent for that pixel, you could actually get sued for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we&#8217;re seeing so many lawsuits in the United States right now. It&#8217;s really, really crazy. And we&#8217;re also seeing a lot of states taking enforcement more seriously. Texas Privacy Law just went into effect. They formed an entire team within the Attorney General&#8217;s office, to enforce that law. And they&#8217;re actually going after companies, and sending letters for non-compliance. So I think in the United States, privacy&#8217;s really, really hitting up right now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is this generally kind of ambulance chasing litigation? Is it people going out and finding problems in order to sue, or is it more that people have been harmed, and so they&#8217;ve progressed some kind of legal case because, I don&#8217;t know, some of their data has escaped and they&#8217;ve been harmed by it? Maybe there&#8217;s not a perfect answer to that, but it always feels like the ambulance chasing component is part of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:29] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So it really depends on the country. So for example, like in the European Union, we see these privacy fines being issued when there&#8217;s actual harm. So great example is a company got sued because they were calling somebody that were on a do not call list. The person said, I don&#8217;t want this, they got 30 more phone calls over the span of a week. And they kept on saying, I don&#8217;t want this, I don&#8217;t want this, please take me off your list, and they continued calling them. So they complained to data protection authority. You know, that seems a lot more like a harm.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the United States, especially with the California Invasion of Privacy Act, it started off with healthcare websites. So if I go on a healthcare website, and I input my data, and that data is shared with Facebook, lawsuits started off that way, which is much more of a harm approach.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But now they&#8217;re suing anyone. So they have some type of list where, here&#8217;s businesses that have the Meta pixel, for example, and they just go down that list. And they have a California individual who clicks on that website, they get tracked, boom, here&#8217;s a lawsuit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we&#8217;re seeing a lot of really small businesses getting caught up with this, you know, people selling coaching services. I know of somebody who was selling patches for people who are veterans, and they got sued. They&#8217;re like, we&#8217;re a tiny business, how are we getting sued $60,000 for having a Meta pixel on our site? So here in the US it seems a lot more like ambulance chasing for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I guess at the bottom of it all though is a moral position. If you&#8217;re surrendering, data and you haven&#8217;t authorised somebody to, I don&#8217;t know, use that data, sell that data, move that data on, there is a moral obligation for the person who&#8217;s running this website to do the right thing by that person&#8217;s data.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it&#8217;s often framed as ambulance chasing, but I guess unless there&#8217;s a bit of a carrot and stick approach where, you know, for a period of time there&#8217;s ambulance chasers, nothing would change. People would abuse the sharing of data. So maybe that&#8217;s the period that we&#8217;re in. I can&#8217;t remember how you described it at the beginning. You used the phrase which kind of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:25] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Frogs boiling in water.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right, okay. So it&#8217;s that moment in time, but that&#8217;s just the lay of the land now. And it does feel like, across the pond, where I live in Europe, things are sort of skewed slightly differently. Maybe there&#8217;s less of the ambulance chasing. But as I say, right at the bottom of it all is, well, some sort of moral compulsion to do the right thing by your data. And if the law is how that needs to be enforced, then that&#8217;s how it needs to be enforced.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It does feel though, like you said, that it&#8217;s kind of gone off the, well, boil, for want of a better word, with the frog analogy. But maybe you are here to tell us that that&#8217;s a little bit different.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Firstly, there is no one size fits all. If we&#8217;re in Europe, it would be on a country by country basis. If you&#8217;re in the US, it would be on a state by state basis. From the WordPress perspective, let&#8217;s take the example of somebody that&#8217;s just got a vanilla version of WordPress. So they&#8217;ve got no forms on there, it&#8217;s just downloaded directly from the internet, they&#8217;ve got a five page brochure website. Does anything inside a vanilla version of WordPress raise any kind of privacy flags?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:25] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> I really think it depends, right? Because some people do just have a pure brochure website, there&#8217;s no forms, there&#8217;s nothing else, and privacy really starts becoming an issue when you&#8217;re collecting personal data. So names, emails, phone numbers, IP addresses, device identifiers, things like that. But I think for anybody that&#8217;s running a business, right? Like if I create a personal recipe website that I just use with my husband, which we do have, you know, it&#8217;s not a big deal because it&#8217;s just a personal use type of situation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But if you&#8217;re running a business, you&#8217;re almost always installing other tools. You&#8217;re installing Google Analytics, you&#8217;re installing Google Fonts, you&#8217;re installing Recaptcha, you know, you&#8217;re having these forms, you&#8217;re linking to other websites. That&#8217;s when privacy can really become an issue. So it does depend individually on your setup, but as long as your site is collecting data, either on the front end or the back end, that&#8217;s when you need to be aware of these things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And when you say collecting data, it&#8217;s not just that there are form fields to be filled out on the front, the mere presence of, like you said, a Google Font, that was a sort of famous thing in the European Union, where the font I think was stored in the US, the file that that was taken from was in the US, and I think it was in Germany, the website, and somebody got prosecuted for that. But there&#8217;s nothing to fill in. It&#8217;s just, there&#8217;s something on the backend, Google Analytics, whatever it may be. So you do need to be mindful of this. You do need to think about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:48] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Absolutely. And I think the one thing that we&#8217;re seeing as a trend right now is, especially with web designers, is starting to become more aware of these things, looking at alternatives, right? So for Google Fonts, it&#8217;s non-compliant with GDPR, because of that court decision, we can just host it locally. So you don&#8217;t have to get consent because it doesn&#8217;t track people, it doesn&#8217;t collect data, it doesn&#8217;t place cookies, right? So that&#8217;s a great alternative.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But for other things like a contact form, there&#8217;s not really an alternative. You&#8217;re going to have to collect data as a business owner, and there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that inherently, you just have to follow certain rules.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Let&#8217;s say with the contact form example, is it that you are collecting that data, and it&#8217;s being stored in a database? Is that where the problem arises, or is it the fact that that data at some point touched your infrastructure? So, as an example, let&#8217;s say I set up a contact form, and all it&#8217;s getting is, I don&#8217;t know, name, email, and message fields. But I have a plugin, and I&#8217;ve utilised the feature in that plugin to immediately expunge the database once the form&#8217;s been sent. So I receive the form, the form is processed on the backend, but immediately deleted, but I&#8217;ve got an email with that data in it. Is my website compliant because of that, or the fact that it&#8217;s sending data, does that make me non-compliant?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:57] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So it&#8217;s both. It&#8217;s the fact that that data&#8217;s been collected, even if it&#8217;s deleted immediately, as well as it&#8217;s been shared with your email service provider, and you&#8217;re storing it in your email as well. And that doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that you&#8217;re non-compliant, it just means that you have to get compliant. You know what I mean? So you do have to do certain things, like obtain consent for the collection of that data, use it responsibly, provide a privacy policy, all of those types of things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> If I was going through anything in life that required legal thought processes, I wouldn&#8217;t assume that I could do it myself. I&#8217;d work on the basis that I need to hire a professional. I don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;m moving house and I need, we call them conveyancers, which is a particular kind of lawyer that deals with moving of property, and all of the titles and deeds that go with that. I wouldn&#8217;t think I can do that myself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And yet we&#8217;re in an industry where I&#8217;m assuming most people who build websites, probably a lot of the listeners to this, won&#8217;t be making those judgements. They might not be contacting lawyers. Is that potentially a move which you shouldn&#8217;t be making? Should you be consulting lawyers on this for each and every website? Because it kind of feels that that in itself might put you out of business because of the cost of hiring lawyers. So I don&#8217;t know what your thoughts are on that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:05] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, so I think it is a dangerous idea, right? It&#8217;s one of those things where, you know, I own a house, and I know that there&#8217;s certain things I can do in that house, like I can rewire my thermostat. But I know I can&#8217;t rewire the entire electricity, because my house is going to burn down, because I have no idea what I&#8217;m doing, right? I think when it comes to web designers, there are a couple things that you should be aware of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So first of all, if you&#8217;re the one that&#8217;s providing the policy to the client, so let&#8217;s say your client&#8217;s like, hey, I need a privacy policy, and you&#8217;re like, oh no problem, I&#8217;ll give you a template, or I&#8217;m going to write it for you. You&#8217;re assuming that liability now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, the mere suggestion of, I&#8217;ll pass on a template for you, I as a web developer, as a web designer, that&#8217;s now on me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:47] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah exactly, because you&#8217;re the one that provided this template to them. And the issue there is that you&#8217;re probably not going to get paid enough for that website to cover the cost of non-compliance. So with privacy, you know, there&#8217;s lawsuits starting at $30,000, there&#8217;s fines starting at $2,500 per violation. So per violation means per website visitor. So let&#8217;s say I have 100 website visitors from California, and I don&#8217;t have a compliant privacy policy, that&#8217;s 2,500 times 100, that&#8217;s how my fine would be calculated. You&#8217;re not getting paid enough for that website to justify that kind of cost in taking on this type of liability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I think as web designers, we do have to tell people, hey, I built this website for you, it&#8217;s collecting data, I&#8217;m not a lawyer, but I do know that there are some legal things that could come up with this. There are some issues that could happen with this. You should talk to a lawyer, or you should use another tool to get compliant.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You give them that recommendation because a lot of clients just may not know that, right? They&#8217;re not tech savvy, or they don&#8217;t know any of this because they&#8217;re not in this industry. And you tell them that, and then it&#8217;s the client&#8217;s responsibility.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Same thing with your contracts. Make sure your contracts don&#8217;t say, agency will be responsible for making sure that the website is compliant with all applicable laws, rules, and regulations. And if that sounds like a quote, it is, because there are a lot of templates out there that say that. Make sure your contract doesn&#8217;t say that, and make sure your client understands that&#8217;s not your responsibility, that&#8217;s their responsibility.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So if I have a contract with a client, they&#8217;ve come to me, I&#8217;ve built their website, I&#8217;ve handed it over, does ignorance count in any way, or do I need to explicitly put in writing, I have said to you, you need legal advice, now go and find it? Are there templates for that, dare I ask? Or is the mere templating of that sentence itself going to put me in hot water? In other words, is there a way that I can offhand this sensibly, in a repeatable fashion, where I can, I don&#8217;t know, just copy a document over to the client? Can that be done? Can I expunge the responsibility from myself fairly easily?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:50] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, you can. So the first step would be to have that in your contract so, you know, if a lawyer wrote your contract, talk to them about it, have them add that in. I would also recommend adding, we&#8217;re not responsible for accessibility, or any other compliance issues, which would be helpful. And at Termageddon we have something called the Website Policies Waiver, and you don&#8217;t actually have to use our service to use it, but it&#8217;s basically a two pager that explains what this is, why it&#8217;s important.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It has the clients sign off on the fact that you&#8217;re not the one that&#8217;s responsible. And it gives them a couple of options, like you&#8217;ll provide your own policies, you&#8217;ll use Termageddon, or you won&#8217;t do anything. But the client signs off on it, so it&#8217;s all documented.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think we&#8217;re kind of at this point right now where there&#8217;s so many lawsuits that I would not, I mean, personally, if I was a web designer, I wouldn&#8217;t just say that and then move on, I would have that in writing somewhere.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is it possible to have a catch all document like that? You just made a point that, you know, if you&#8217;ve got a hundred visitors from California, then that&#8217;s going to be impacting. And obviously, as a website developer, unless I&#8217;m geofencing the IP addresses and saying, no, Californians, you may not even look at my website. And honestly, who&#8217;s doing that? Nobody. It would be nice to have visitors from California. That&#8217;s almost the point of having a web presence.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do I need to worry about that? Do I need to worry about every single jurisdiction on earth, or can my British, in my case, based lawyer take that on for me?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:11] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Sometimes they can, sometimes they can&#8217;t. So if you are working with a lawyer, I would ask them, what privacy laws do you intend to cover here? And they should be asking you questions to figure out what laws apply to you, because all of this depends on what laws apply to you. So each law has different compliance requirements. So that&#8217;s the number one thing that must be done.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if you are working with a lawyer, I would ask them, hey, help me figure out what laws apply to me. What laws are you comfortable covering? What laws are you not comfortable covering? How do you write this policy? How do you intend to update this policy for me? Are there extra charges for updating, and things like that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think it&#8217;s important to note that, just because your website could randomly be accessible anywhere in the world, that doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that all the laws apply to you. So for example, like some laws, like Nevada, you have to do business in the state. So you have to have customers there, or ship there, or things like that. Some laws have business size restrictions, so you have to make a certain amount of revenue, like $25 million, or you have to collect the data of a certain number of people. So there are a lot of factors that go into figuring out what laws actually apply.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;m obviously not a lawyer, but I know that if I want to move house, I&#8217;m going to contact conveyancer. I have a friend who is a maritime lawyer, and I know that he deals exclusively with freight, boats out on the ocean. In other words, there&#8217;s a specific kind of lawyer for a specific kind of law. Is that the case here? Is there a growing industry of web-based, online lawyers, and are they preferred, or could I walk down my high street and use any old lawyer?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:41] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So there are a lot of privacy lawyers out there. So the International Association of Privacy Professionals, iapp.org, which I&#8217;m a part of, certifies lawyers and privacy, and also has a directory of lawyers you can find there as well. It&#8217;s difficult because you may go to a business lawyer and they may say, oh yeah, no problem, I&#8217;ll write you a privacy policy, and then get some template online, or something like that. So definitely make sure to ask them, are you experienced in this area of law? Because it is very, very specific, and it&#8217;s very intricate. You know, I used to be a business lawyer back in the day, and I didn&#8217;t know anything about privacy. So you do have to be careful with that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It sounded like the search that you might perform on Google there would be privacy lawyer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:20] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yep, privacy lawyer. And then you would put in like your city.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, perfect. So your presentation at WordCamp was called, Building WordPress Websites with ‘Privacy by Design’ in Mind. And it sounds like you&#8217;ve got some tips there, some short circuit things that you might want to be thinking about. Let&#8217;s go through a few of those. What is in your presentation? What things can we have at the front of our mind if we&#8217;re building websites, which clearly people listening to this is doing are doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:46] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So, I&#8217;m going to start off first by just talking about what privacy by design is, and why it&#8217;s important. So kind of going over some of the legal requirements, like the laws that specifically talk about privacy by design, and what they say, and what&#8217;s happening with them. And then also talking about what privacy by design is, which is basically the integration of privacy throughout the entire life cycle of the project, from the beginning to the very end.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it starts off with the wire frame designs, and ends with a destruction of data. So privacy is embedded into all of those processes. So a great example would be, if you have a website that has a login form. When somebody puts in their email to reset their password, and they put in the wrong email, you don&#8217;t display, hey, you actually registered with this email instead, right? You know, a well known company got into trouble with this, when you&#8217;re setting up two factor authentication, don&#8217;t add the 2FA information to a marketing list. It was Meta that did that, which was just great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Things like that, so making sure it&#8217;s, privacy&#8217;s taking into account. And I&#8217;ll also be sharing some examples of bad practices, and examples of good practices. Some examples of the bad practices are cookie consent banners that just have an accept button and no decline. Or the decline is hidden, and tiny font underneath, and doesn&#8217;t even look like a button. Or email unsubscribes that are very confusing, where you can&#8217;t understand, you know, if I check the box, am I opting in or opting out?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The way people display their policies. I have a screenshot of policy that says, analytics, and then it&#8217;s a whole bunch of blank space, and then, how we share your data, and it says, we don&#8217;t share your data with anyone. Things like that, that I think for a lot of people, once you talk about it, it seems really obvious, but if you&#8217;re not a part of that area of expertise, it might not be super obvious at first glance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then I&#8217;ll also share some best design practices. So there&#8217;s some really good website design that I&#8217;ve seen, that provides good privacy choices and good design.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then I&#8217;ll also be giving some tips and cheat sheets. So for example, like when you build a website, tell your client all the third party tools that are on the website. We get on a lot of calls with a lot of people to generate their policies, and they&#8217;re like, I have no idea if I have Google Analytics, right? Well, they should know that because that could be a very privacy invasive tool. And that really affects their compliance requirements. It can even subject them to other privacy laws. But if they don&#8217;t know that, then they don&#8217;t know. So some tips for designers about how to communicate this all to their clients, what they should be talking about, what they should be thinking about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Whenever I think of lawyers, forgive me, I always think that there&#8217;s an element, it&#8217;s a fairly well paid profession, let&#8217;s put it that way. And I would imagine that if I went to my brochure website client and said, okay, I&#8217;m not responsible for this, but here&#8217;s some information, you need to get a lawyer. I&#8217;m imagining that, typically, they might be thinking the same thought. Gosh, that&#8217;s going to end up costing me an absolute arm and a leg.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Is that the case? Can you achieve compliance in a, well, air quotes, affordable way? Or does it end up suddenly adding thousands of dollars of legal fees? Which may actually be the difference with launch, go, no go, you know. Build a website, don&#8217;t build a website. Does it always have to be expensive? And I&#8217;m guessing services like your own, Termageddon is trying to reduce the cost because you can kind of automate a lot of this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:04] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I think the cost for a lawyer, it can be expensive depending on where you&#8217;re located. So, you know, if you&#8217;re in downtown Chicago, you&#8217;re going to be paying a lot. If you&#8217;re in southern Illinois, in a smaller town, you may be paying less. But there might not even be a privacy lawyer in your town. You know what I mean?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I think for a lot of businesses that can become unaffordable. And that&#8217;s why we create a Termageddon, which is kind of a good mesh of these types of things that is affordable for small business. And that was our whole goal, is to make privacy accessible for small businesses. Because I think small businesses do care. They care about their clients. They care about their email list. They care about what they do with the data. It&#8217;s just that they don&#8217;t want to spend $30,000 on this. But you can automate some aspects of it for a much cheaper price.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What some people do is they&#8217;ll generate their policies with a generator, and then give them to a lawyer to review, which is way cheaper than writing a new one. We provide updates as well, which is great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For people who can afford it, lawyer&#8217;s great. If you can&#8217;t afford it, which I totally understand, you know, we&#8217;re a small business as well, using third party tools like Termageddon is very helpful because it can help you get there without that huge price tag.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I guess you&#8217;ve got to figure out what your exposure is. You know, if you&#8217;re doing something really bespoke, and you genuinely are taking people&#8217;s medical data. There&#8217;s no question, you need a bunch of lawyers, specifically to cast their eye over your webite. But if you&#8217;ve just got a personal blog, it&#8217;s probably much more straightforward. Inspect what you&#8217;re doing, and then go and get the legal advice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I do like the idea of getting some documentation, maybe from some service like you mentioned, and then getting a lawyer in your local area to sort of look over it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it also feels like a movable feast. It feels like, what was yesterday true, may not be true a year, two years, from now. And, is that the case? Is this the kind of set it and forget it in 2024, and then revisit it a decade from now, or is it more a month, a year, two years? Is there an iteration? Is there a sort of cadence that you need to be thinking about?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:00] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> I wish it was something where like you created it once, and then look at it again in 10 years. Take like a 10 year vacation, it&#8217;d be awesome. Unfortunately, no. There are so many new privacy laws. So in 2025 we have 8 laws going into effect. So these policies are constantly updating all the time. And if you are working with a lawyer, I would recommend asking them what their price is for the updates, so that you&#8217;re not getting a bill every other month for a couple thousand dollars to make those updates. You know what I mean?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But there are a lot of updates that need to be made very, very frequently. From the new laws perspective, there&#8217;s new rules, there&#8217;s new regulations. And here in the US we have these 20, 30-year-old privacy laws being reinterpreted as applying to websites now. So those need updates too, as well as whenever you change your privacy practices, you need to change it too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that can get very costly, and it could get complicated, especially if you&#8217;re trying to do this yourself, because tracking this is like a full-time job. I mean, trust me, it is my job to track all of this, and it&#8217;s very, very time consuming. It&#8217;s not one of those things, if you don&#8217;t have anybody helping you with it, it&#8217;s definitely not a set it and forget it solution.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And so is that what you, Donata, spend your day doing? Literally consuming, I don&#8217;t know what it is, information from different jurisdictions, and collating that to try and make it work within your own business. Is that what you spend your time doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:22] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, pretty much. So I&#8217;m the legal engineer behind all the policies, so I wrote all the policy questions that help figure out what laws apply to you. All the remaining questions that you need to answer. All the answers, all the text variations, which we have hundreds of thousands of tax variations now. And then I&#8217;m also responsible for the updates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So whenever a new law is passed, you know, I have to track the bills first of all, which so many bills don&#8217;t pass, it&#8217;s like such a waste of time sometimes. You know, I do have to track all of that, and then once something becomes law, before the effective date, I have to put it in the generator and help people update their policies, and everything like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So if you use a service like yours, do you then provide something, and then you&#8217;ll, I don&#8217;t know, email an update out, or is it more, I don&#8217;t know, you put something on the website which is automatically updated as you make the adjustments on the Termageddon end, my website is automatically updated, or do I have to copy paste new privacy policies every so often?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:20] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> No, so when you generate your policies with Termageddon, you get an embed code. The embed code goes onto your website, and that&#8217;s where updates are pushed through. How updates are made kind of depend on the law. So it depends on what new disclosures are required. So if it&#8217;s information that we already know, we push the update automatically for you. If it&#8217;s information that we don&#8217;t already know, we might ask you a question or two, you respond, and then the text update is made automatically to your privacy policy text.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And do you take the responsibility? We talked earlier about who&#8217;s responsible, and at what point can you divest yourself of that responsibility. If I use a service like yours, or a rival, does that mean that I am absolved a responsibility and you have taken it on, or is it more nuanced than that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:02] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So when people register with us, they have to accept our privacy policy, and our terms of service, which means that they&#8217;re forming a relationship with us about their policies. So for example, as an agency, you can send clients to us through the affiliate program, you get a promo code or link. They register with us, and we&#8217;re the ones responsible for their policies. When you&#8217;re reselling Termageddon, we recommend sharing the license with a client, so the client has to create an account, and register with us, and acknowledge that we&#8217;re responsible for their policies as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. So we&#8217;re in the year 2024, and I honestly don&#8217;t know what the landscape looks like. I&#8217;m presuming that you do a little bit more. Does it feel like more privacy in the future, less privacy in the future, or the same? In other words, if I&#8217;m a jobbing website designer, builder, web developer, whatever it may be, is there more coming down the pike than there is now, or is it the sort of thing that I can worry about the same amount this year as next year?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:55] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> There&#8217;s a lot more, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:56] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> There&#8217;s always more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:57] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, I have a whole spreadsheet of upcoming privacy laws, and it just keeps getting longer, and longer, and longer. And the problem is, in the US there&#8217;s no comprehensive, overarching federal privacy law. So you&#8217;re seeing all of these states propose and pass their own laws. And that&#8217;s a really big issue because it creates this hodgepodge. Because if I&#8217;m a business located in Illinois, I have to comply with laws all over, because I do business there, I collect their personal information. So I don&#8217;t have to be located in a state or country for their laws to apply to me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it creates this huge, what we call the privacy law patchwork, which is like the bane of every privacy lawyers existence right now. Because there&#8217;s more and more of these laws, and more and more of these requirements. They don&#8217;t exactly match up across the states. There are some states that have a lot of similarities, there are states that are completely different. You know, some exempt nonprofits, others don&#8217;t. It&#8217;s kind of a mess.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, wow. And that&#8217;s just the US. Map that across the whole world all the 192 odd, whatever it is, countries out there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:59] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah. And you know, countries that have had privacy laws for a long time, like Australia with their privacy act from 1988. It&#8217;s been amended a couple times, but due to the changes in technology, and the privacy invasive technology that we&#8217;ve seen, they&#8217;re working on a complete overhaul of their privacy law. So these laws that have been established for a long time, that we&#8217;re very familiar with, are going to completely change as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So, Australians, watch this space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:24] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Where could people contact you if they&#8217;re kind of concerned, or interested, or just want to find out a bit more about Termageddon? Where would they get you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:31] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So you can find our website at termageddon.com. Email me at donata at termmageddon.com, or you can follow us on social media. We&#8217;re just @termageddon everywhere. Definitely feel free to reach out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Head to wptavern.com, search for Donata&#8217;s episode, and I&#8217;ll have put all of the links there in the show notes, if you didn&#8217;t manage to capture any of those. Everything should be there. So, Donata, thank you so much for chatting to me today. I appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:54] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Thank you for having me.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://x.com/termageddon\">Donata Stroink-Skillrud</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Donata is an attorney licensed in Illinois and a Certified Information Privacy Professional. She is the President and Legal Engineer of <a href=\"https://termageddon.com/\">Termageddon</a>, a SaaS that generates website policies and helps keep them up to date with changing legislation. Donata is also a Fellow of the American Bar Foundation, Chair of the American Bar Association&#8217;s ePrivacy Committee and Program Committee, member of the ABA&#8217;s Cybersecurity Legal Task Force and the American Bar Association&#8217;s Representative to the United Nations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Donata will take us through the ever changing topic of privacy laws, highlighting the challenges posed to businesses to comply with a myriad of regulations. She talks about the global trend of updating privacy laws to keep up with rapid technological advancements and new capabilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We touch upon the significant moral and legal responsibilities tied to user data management. Donata stresses the importance of &#8216;Privacy by Design,&#8217; which integrates privacy measures from the start to the end of a project lifecycle. She shares real-life examples of common pitfalls, such as misleading cookie banners, and offers best practices for embedding privacy in web development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Donata explains the importance of including disclaimers in contracts to mitigate legal liabilities and provides actionable resources, including her own &#8220;Website Policies Waiver,&#8221; which helps website builders navigate the complexities of legal compliance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also discuss the landscape of international law applicability, the high costs of specialised legal compliance, and how you need to be mindful of what’s coming in the next few years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re keen to find out more about the current legal landscape, or just want some more knowledge to ensure your projects are legally sound and ethically responsible, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://termageddon.com/\">Termageddon website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.americanbarfoundation.org/\">American Bar Foundation</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.americanbar.org/\">American Bar Association</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.americanbar.org/groups/cybersecurity/\">Cybersecurity Legal Task Force</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Donata&#8217;s presentation at WordCamp US &#8211; <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/building-wordpress-websites-with-privacy-by-design-in-mind/\">Building WordPress Websites with Privacy by Data in Mind</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://enforcementtracker.com/\">GDPR Enforcement Tracker website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/resources/business-law-today/2024-august/californias-invasion-privacy-act/\">California Invasion of Privacy Act</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act\">Video Privacy Protection Act</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/consumer-protection/file-consumer-complaint/consumer-privacy-rights/texas-data-privacy-and-security-act\">Texas Privacy Law</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://termageddon.com/policies/disclaimer-generator/\">Termageddon&#8217;s Disclaimer Generator</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://iapp.org/\">International Association of Privacy Professionals</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://x.com/termageddon\">Termageddon&#8217;s X / Twitter</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 09 Oct 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:23;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:57:\"Akismet: How to Prevent Contact Form Spam without CAPTCHA\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"http://akismet.com/?p=284201\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59:\"https://akismet.com/blog/prevent-form-spam-without-captcha/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19898:\"<p>Contact forms are an essential part of your website, but the unfortunate reality is that they attract spam like a magnet. So, if your inbox is overrun with spam form submissions, the genuine inquiries will be overshadowed. And that stands to make your life a lot more&nbsp;difficult.</p>\n\n<p>CAPTCHA is a familiar option to stop spam, but it can drive potential customers away due to inconvenience. You know you’re not a robot, but sometimes CAPTCHA&nbsp;disagrees.</p>\n\n<p>Fortunately, there are other ways to stop spam without making your site visitors jump through&nbsp;hoops.</p>\n\n<p>Modern anti&#8209;spam solutions are much more accessible and user&#8209;friendly than CAPTCHA. So let’s explore some of these and get the clutter out of your&nbsp;inbox.</p>\n\n\n<span id=\"more-284201\"></span>\n\n\n<h2 id=\"why-captcha-is-to-be-avoided-in 2024\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why CAPTCHA is to be avoided in&nbsp;2024</h2>\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://akismet.com/blog/what-is-captcha/\">CAPTCHA</a> has been around for years now. Anyone who’s been online is familiar with deciphering distorted letters or selecting all the squares that contain a certain object — the typical CAPTCHA fare.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<p>So what’s the problem? CAPTCHA is far from ideal, especially if you want to maximize user engagement, lead generation, or sales on your site. Some of the downsides to CAPTCHA&nbsp;include:</p>\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li><strong>User experience issues</strong>: CAPTCHA is perceived as a nuisance. When people click a button to do something, they don’t want to be forced to do picture puzzles or math problems. It’s frustrating to be interrupted by a CAPTCHA when you just want to fill out a&nbsp;form.</li>\n\n<li><strong>Accessibility concerns</strong>: It also poses significant accessibility challenges, particularly for those with visual impairments. For some people, it’s impossible to interact with them. While audio CAPTCHAs exist, these cause problems, too. Relying on CAPTCHA means you risk alienating a portion of your&nbsp;audience.</li>\n\n<li><strong>Decreased conversion rates</strong>: Ultimately, anything that disrupts the user journey will damage conversion rates. If what’s beyond the CAPTCHA isn’t valuable enough, people will simply abandon the form, and you just lost a conversion. If you want visitors to do something, you should minimize the number of barriers in the&nbsp;way.</li></ul>\n\n\n<p>At one time, CAPTCHA was the most effective way to stop spam. But with new advances in online technology, things have&nbsp;changed.</p>\n\n<h2 id=\"how-to-stop-form-spam-without captcha\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to stop form spam without&nbsp;CAPTCHA</h2>\n\n<p>You no longer need to rely on CAPTCHA to protect your forms from spam. There are several effective, <a href=\"https://akismet.com/blog/captcha-alternatives/\">more user&#8209;friendly methods</a> worth exploring. Let’s take a look at some of the potential strategies to block form spam without sacrificing conversions or&nbsp;accessibility.</p>\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">1. Akismet: The AI&#8209;powered solution that blocks 99.99% of&nbsp;spam</h3>\n\n<p>What if there was something that could stop contact form spam without your visitors even knowing it’s there? Something that requires minimal configuration, has no confusing setup, and just&nbsp;works?</p>\n\n<p>That describes Akismet perfectly. Powered by advanced AI and machine learning, Akismet excels at identifying and blocking spam submissions with an impressive accuracy of 99.99%. And it works entirely behind the&nbsp;scenes.</p>\n\n<p>How does it work? Just as you know the email offering an inheritance from a foreign prince in exchange for your banking details is fake, Akismet can sniff out spam at a&nbsp;glance.</p>\n\n<p>Akismet uses a massive database of known spam and a machine learning algorithm that becomes more intelligent the more spam it blocks. As spammers change their methods, Akismet evolves with&nbsp;them.</p>\n\n<p>Each time a form is submitted, Akismet compares the data against its database, flagging any submissions that match common spam patterns. That way, only legitimate messages make it to your inbox. It’s the most reliable way to keep your contact forms&nbsp;spam&#8209;free.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"2-honeypot-a-decent-yet-limited solution\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">2. Honeypot: A decent yet limited&nbsp;solution</h3>\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https://akismet.com/blog/what-is-a-honeypot/\">honeypot technique</a> is another popular method for dealing with form spam, and while it has its merits, it comes with many&nbsp;limitations.</p>\n\n<p>The idea behind it is simple: you add an extra, hidden field to your form that human users can’t see. Spambots can see it and usually fill out every field they detect in a form. When a form is submitted with this trap field filled out, the submission is flagged and&nbsp;discarded.</p>\n\n<p>While a honeypot is effective against basic spambots, they often fall short. Advanced bots detect these hidden fields and bypass them, or intentionally avoid unusual fields. Some bots even use machine learning to detect honeypots and only fill out necessary&nbsp;fields.</p>\n\n<p>That means, over time, your spam protection becomes less and less effective — unlike AI&#8209;based solutions like Akismet which adapts in real&#8209;time to new threats. Honeypots are static and leave your forms vulnerable to new types of&nbsp;spam.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"3-session-cookies-unreliable-and complex\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">3. Session cookies: Unreliable and&nbsp;complex</h3>\n\n<p>Session cookies are another method used to block spam. This involves setting a cookie when someone visits your site, which keeps track of their session and behavior. This is checked when they submit a form. If spammy behavior is detected, the submission is&nbsp;flagged.</p>\n\n<p>While this approach is also effective against simple bots, it’s far from foolproof. Advanced bots readily spoof legitimate behavior, so this method is unreliable. Also, relying on session cookies causes problems for legitimate users who browse with strong privacy settings or disabled&nbsp;cookies.</p>\n\n<p>Another drawback is the complexity involved in setting up session cookies to block spam. This requires a lot of technical knowledge, and it doesn’t even work as well as other&nbsp;solutions.</p>\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">4. Email filtering: Weak and&nbsp;time&#8209;consuming</h3>\n\n<p>Email filtering is another method for managing contact form spam. This approach involves setting up filters in your email client that automatically hide messages that appear to be spam. It identifies these based on blocklisted email addresses or suspicious&nbsp;keywords.</p>\n\n<p>The primary issue here is that they’re often ineffective. There’s a good chance that something will slip through the cracks and clutter up your inbox. Email filters are also <em>too</em> aggressive sometimes, filtering out legitimate messages. That means you’ll probably end up having to sift through all that spam&nbsp;anyway.</p>\n\n<p>Setting up your own email filters is also time&#8209;consuming. And you’ll likely end up constantly adjusting them and still having spam slip&nbsp;through.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"5-rate-limiting-only-works-for-repeat offenders\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">5. Rate limiting: Only works for repeat&nbsp;offenders</h3>\n\n<p>Rate limiting is used to control the number of form submissions from a single IP address within a specified timeframe. This means that a single bot can’t be used to spam your&nbsp;form.</p>\n\n<p>This is useful for curbing form abuse, but the limitations are clear. It primarily targets spambots that attack your site from the same IP multiple times. But many spammers distribute their attacks across a network of bots or rotate their IP addresses frequently. Rate limiting is ineffective against spam attacks like&nbsp;this.</p>\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">6. Time&#8209;based form submissions: For very basic&nbsp;bots</h3>\n\n<p>Time&#8209;based form submission checks target bots that fill out and submit forms too quickly. Unlike normal users who need to spend at least a minute filling out a form, bots do it almost instantly. Just set a minimum time limit, and if a form is completed too quickly, mark it as&nbsp;spam.</p>\n\n<p>Most spammers have long wised up to this method, however. Advanced bots mimic human behavior. So, this ends up being a basic way of blocking spam that allows a lot of bots to slip through&nbsp;anyway.</p>\n\n<h2 id=\"why-akismet-is-the-perfect-alternative-to captcha\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why Akismet is the perfect alternative to&nbsp;CAPTCHA</h2>\n\n<p>As you can see, other ways to stop spam are often lacking. They either damage the user experience, filter out mail too aggressively, or leave several vulnerabilities open for spam to slip&nbsp;through.</p>\n\n\n<p>But Akismet is different. It’s a seamless, intelligent solution that works quietly in the background. As it’s always learning and growing, false positives are rare while most spam is successfully filtered out. As if you need more convincing, here’s why Akismet is the perfect choice to replace CAPTCHA in 2024:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"smart-and-adaptive-spam protection\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Smart and adaptive spam&nbsp;protection</h3>\n\n<p>As you’ve likely noticed, machine learning and AI have recently become much more powerful. Akismet has long used machine learning to power its anti&#8209;spam functionality, and these systems are now powerful enough to boast a 99.99% accuracy with over <a href=\"https://akismet.com/blog/akismet-five-hundred-billion-with-a-b-spam/\">500 billion pieces of spam&nbsp;blocked</a>.</p>\n\n<p>Spammers are always evolving, and stagnant methods of stopping them like rate limiting and honeypots will only work for so long. Akismet is different because it’s also adapting in real&#8209;time with every piece of spam successfully blocked. As new spam tactics emerge, Akismet will learn and grow with&nbsp;them.</p>\n\n<p>Akismet’s usage of AI also means that it doesn’t just recognize known spam patterns — it also identifies subtle signs of spam in real&#8209;time. It blocks new spam tactics before they even get out of the&nbsp;gate.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"seamless-user experience\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Seamless user&nbsp;experience</h3>\n\n<p>One of Akismet’s standout features is its ability to provide a seamless user experience, something that CAPTCHA fails to deliver. There are no tedious puzzles to solve with Akismet — your visitors won’t even know it’s&nbsp;installed!</p>\n\n<p>Akismet operates entirely behind the scenes and requires no extra work from users. This makes it more accessible than CAPTCHA as well as simply less&nbsp;intrusive.</p>\n\n<p>People are more likely to complete your forms since they don’t have to deal with unnecessary hurdles. And that means higher conversion rates&nbsp;overall.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"easy-integration-with-any website\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Easy integration with any&nbsp;website</h3>\n\n<p>Another reason Akismet is the perfect alternative to CAPTCHA is how easily it integrates with virtually any website. Akismet may be famous as a <a href=\"https://akismet.com/wordpress/\">WordPress plugin</a>, but it can be used anywhere. Just connect your site to the API and you have spam&nbsp;protection.</p>\n\n<p>For WordPress users, Akismet integration is particularly simple, as the plugin comes pre&#8209;installed and is free for personal, non&#8209;commercial&nbsp;blogs.</p>\n\n<p>Otherwise, there are plenty of <a href=\"https://akismet.com/developers/plugins-and-libraries/\">Akismet plugins</a> so you can just as easily get it running on platforms like Drupal or use Ruby, Python, JavaScript, or another framework to install it. You can also build your own&nbsp;application.</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"set-it-and-forget-it-technology\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Set-it-and-forget-it technology</h3>\n\n\n<p>What makes Akismet really stand out is its hands&#8209;off nature. Once Akismet is integrated into your website, there’s no need to constantly monitor and tweak your spam settings. The machine learning technology behind it does all that for&nbsp;you.</p>\n\n<p>Everything is taken care of automatically and behind the scenes. Spam gets filtered and blocked with no manual intervention necessary. Thanks to the 99.99% accuracy rate, you don’t need to constantly monitor your spam&nbsp;folder.</p>\n\n<p>As Akismet’s AI&#8209;powered engine continues to learn and adapt, every spam submission that gets blocked only makes it more&nbsp;effective.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"accessibility-and inclusivity\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Accessibility and&nbsp;inclusivity</h3>\n\n<p>CAPTCHA causes difficulties for people with disabilities, who make up a significant portion of online users. Being excluded is frustrating and alienating, and they’ll likely never come back to your&nbsp;site.</p>\n\n<p>When you eliminate the need for CAPTCHA by using Akismet, you make your website much more welcoming and accessible. Since it works invisibly in the background, no one needs to worry about being locked out of parts of your&nbsp;site.</p>\n\n\n<p>Still on the fence? Learn <a href=\"https://akismet.com/blog/convertkit-customerstory/\">how ConvertKit leverages Akismet</a> to protect their users from spam while maximizing conversions.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h2 id=\"how-to-integrate-akismet-on-your website\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to integrate Akismet on your&nbsp;website</h2>\n\n<p>Getting Akismet on your website is a straightforward process, especially if you use WordPress. Even if not, there are still plenty of libraries and third&#8209;party plugins you can use depending on your framework and&nbsp;platform.</p>\n\n<p>The best part of Akismet is that it’s free for personal, non&#8209;commercial sites. For commercial sites, plans are straightforward and&nbsp;affordable.</p>\n\n<p>A few steps is all it takes to protect your site from spam forever. Let’s go over the WordPress&#8209;specific steps&nbsp;first.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"step-1-install-and-activate akismet\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Step 1: Install and activate&nbsp;Akismet</h3>\n\n<p>If your website is built on WordPress, installing Akismet just takes a few steps. In fact, it may already be there, since most WordPress sites come with Akismet pre&#8209;installed. You just need to activate&nbsp;it.</p>\n\n<p>To check if Akismet is installed, log in to your WordPress dashboard and check the <strong>Plugins → Installed Plugins</strong> page from the menu on the left. If Akismet is there, just click&nbsp;<strong>Activate</strong>.</p>\n\n\n<img width=\"1223\" height=\"534\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image.png\" alt=\"WordPress Installed Plugins page, showing Akismet at the top\" class=\"wp-image-284202\" />\n\n\n<p>If Akismet isn’t installed yet, you can get it through <strong>Plugins → Add New Plugin</strong>. Search for Akismet and click <strong>Install</strong>, then&nbsp;<strong>Activate</strong>.</p>\n\n\n<img width=\"1207\" height=\"525\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-1.png\" alt=\"Akismet plugin listing in the WordPress.org directory\" class=\"wp-image-284204\" />\n\n\n<h3 id=\"step-2-obtain-an-api key\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Step 2: Obtain an API&nbsp;key</h3>\n\n<p>To use Akismet, even the free version, you’ll need to obtain an API key. You can get one from the <a href=\"https://akismet.com/pricing/\">pricing page</a>, where you’ll select the appropriate plan. Just sign up for an account, and you’ll receive an API&nbsp;key.</p>\n\n\n<img width=\"1205\" height=\"654\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-2.png\" alt=\"three Akismet pricing plans: personal, pro, and business, with features included in each one\" class=\"wp-image-284205\" />\n\n\n<p>Back at the WordPress dashboard, head over to <strong>Settings → Akismet Anti&#8209;spam</strong> and click <strong>Manually enter an API key</strong>. Paste it in and you’re good to&nbsp;go.</p>\n\n\n<img width=\"1220\" height=\"620\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-3.png\" alt=\"API key field on Akismet dashboard\" class=\"wp-image-284206\" />\n\n\n<p>Once Akismet is installed, you’ll find the <strong>Settings</strong> screen on the same page. Here, you can configure how the plugin will handle spam. That’s it. It will start working right&nbsp;away.</p>\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to integrate Akismet on non&#8209;WordPress&nbsp;sites</h3>\n\n<p>For non&#8209;WordPress sites, the process may be a little trickier. Check our <a href=\"https://akismet.com/developers/getting-started/\">Getting Started guide</a> for the full&nbsp;details.</p>\n\n<p>Depending on the platform you use and the framework your website is built on, there may be a plugin or library available that you can install. For example, there are a bunch of Akismet libraries for PHP, Python, .NET, and&nbsp;more.</p>\n\n<p>If that doesn’t work, Akismet provides full documentation on how to <a href=\"https://akismet.com/developers/detailed-docs/building-your-application/\">connect to the API</a>&nbsp;yourself.</p>\n\n\n<p>Whatever you use, Akismet aims to make the process as easy as possible. <a href=\"https://akismet.com/pricing/\">Get an API key today</a> and see for yourself what a difference it makes.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h2 id=\"frequently-asked questions\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Frequently asked&nbsp;questions</h2>\n\n\n<p>Now that we’ve covered the different ways to prevent contact form spam without relying on CAPTCHA, you might still have some unanswered questions. Let’s explore a few common questions people have on the subject.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"what-is captcha\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is&nbsp;CAPTCHA?</h3>\n\n<p>CAPTCHA is a security tool used to identify humans from automated bots. Usually, CAPTCHA requires you to complete tasks like identifying distorted text, selecting what parts of an image contain a certain object, or even more complicated puzzles. While this is usually effective, CAPTCHA often frustrates users and drives them&nbsp;away.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"is-it-possible-to-prevent-spam-without captcha\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Is it possible to prevent spam without&nbsp;CAPTCHA?</h3>\n\n<p>It’s entirely possible to prevent spam without CAPTCHA. While methods like honeypots, email filtering, and rate limiting may not be as reliable, advances in machine learning have changed everything. AI&#8209;powered anti&#8209;spam is now almost 100% effective, and tools like Akismet prove themselves as superior CAPTCHA&nbsp;alternatives.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"what-is akismet\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is&nbsp;Akismet?</h3>\n\n\n<p>Akismet is a powerful anti-spam service that uses advanced AI and machine learning to detect and filter out spam. Your contact forms, comments, and other submissions are fully protected. It uses machine learning to analyze vast sets of data — currently over 500 billion pieces of spam — and effectively stop 99.99% of spam from reaching your inbox.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n<h3 id=\"why-is-akismet-the-best-alternative-to captcha\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why is Akismet the best alternative to&nbsp;CAPTCHA?</h3>\n\n<p>Akismet is the best alternative to CAPTCHA because it offers strong spam protection without compromising user experience or accessibility. Unlike CAPTCHA, which is slow and frustrating, Akismet works entirely behind the scenes. Its AI&#8209;backed, adaptive technology ensures that your site is protected against evolving spam tactics,&nbsp;too.</p>\n\n<h3 id=\"where-can-i-learn-more-about akismet\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Where can I learn more about&nbsp;Akismet?</h3>\n\n<p>To learn more about Akismet, visit the <a href=\"https://akismet.com/\">official Akismet website</a>. There, you can explore its features, sign up for an API key, and access detailed documentation on how to integrate Akismet into your&nbsp;website.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 09 Oct 2024 13:15:03 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Jen Swisher\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:24;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:98:\"Do The Woo Community: Woo Innovations in Order and Payment Processing with James, Beka and Patrick\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85992\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:96:\"https://dothewoo.io/woo-innovations-in-order-and-payment-processing-with-james-beka-and-patrick/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:52771:\"Episode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Hello, I&#8217;m James Kemp. I&#8217;m from WooCommerce, and we&#8217;re going to use this time to talk a bit about what we&#8217;re working on at WooCommerce behind the scenes that maybe you, the community, don&#8217;t generally get to hear about. So I am joined today by Beka from KestrelWP and Patrick from Mindsize. We&#8217;re all collectively working on a project together centered around order management, and we&#8217;ll dive into that shortly. But first of all, I think it would be useful to introduce yourselves. Beka, if you want to go first.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, sure thing. It&#8217;s great to see both of you again, James and Patrick. For those of you maybe new to the Woo space, I&#8217;m Beka Rice. I work at Kestrel, formerly one of the partners at SkyVerge. I&#8217;ve worked with WooCommerce since version 1.5 or 1.6, I think. So it&#8217;s been about a decade, actually a little over a decade of time with WooCommerce. I&#8217;ve built over 60 different plugins for WooCommerce as well as cross-platform apps for Woo and Shopify. So I&#8217;m very excited now to be working on a project to improve and revamp order management with James and Patrick. Patrick, I&#8217;ll turn it over to you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />I&#8217;m Patrick Garman. I own and run Mindsize. I&#8217;ve been working with Mindsize since 2017, but I&#8217;ve been working with Woo since probably the same era as Beka, maybe slightly earlier. I feel like it was around version 1.2 or 1.4, right after the fork that we don&#8217;t talk about. We work on high-performance, high-scale applications, and a lot of WooCommerce is the tool we use when we need to really customize an e-commerce store to fit our needs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />What&#8217;s the first version of WooCommerce? WooCommerce 1.0?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />That&#8217;s a gray area.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think they did call it 1.0 right after the fork, and there were quickly a lot of patch releases. I remember the first couple of minor releases were within months of the WooCommerce launch, so it moved pretty quickly. Version 1.4 would&#8217;ve probably been, I don&#8217;t know, maybe six months in at most. It was pretty quick in the beginning, and then we got to skip around a bit. Sometimes it jumped from 1.6 to 2.0 right away. Those were painful times, but yeah, pretty early on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, I think I joined or started using WooCommerce after originally using the previous software in…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />2000? I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a bad word to say Jigoshop.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />I don&#8217;t know if we’re allowed to say it. What happens if we say it three times?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Let’s not test that, James.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />It was 2011 when I started using it. I didn&#8217;t take note of what the version number was back then.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, that would’ve been pretty early. It was like fall 2011, or early 2012, I want to say.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />My first plugin was in 2011, and it went on to CodeCanyon, so I must’ve been right on it somehow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />I&#8217;m going to look it up right now. You’ve got me curious. Yeah, September 2011. So Woo is almost 13 years old. There we go. Okay, so we&#8217;ve all been doing this even longer than we thought—this is what age does to you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, definitely a lot of expertise in the room around WooCommerce. I imagine WooCommerce wasn’t your first entry point into the web either. We’ve all got a lot of medals in the industry, which is awesome. That’s why it’s such a great group of people to work on the project we’re working on. For clarity for any listeners, Beka and Patrick are working in a consultation capacity at the moment. We&#8217;re in the very early stages of the project, doing a lot of work around deciding what it’s going to look like, how the data is structured, and a lot of work on design and how it’s going to be implemented into WooCommerce. That’s the context. I think we should start discussing what we’re actually working on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />So maybe what if we outline the problem? I think over time, Patrick and I have seen a lot of different Woo store owners doing a lot of off-the-wall but cool things. And I think one of the things that we’ve seen over time—and obviously, Patrick, feel free to jump in, especially from a high-volume perspective—has been that fulfilling orders, and that timeline between the customer placing the order and the customer receiving their order, is the hardest thing for any e-commerce merchant to manage, right? There are hard things…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Probably one of the most common things that they&#8217;re going to be in there doing as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Exactly right. That’s what you do all the time. You’re not always uploading product images or changing product listings, but the one thing you’re doing consistently is fulfilling orders. And it’s the hardest thing in e-commerce, even though inventory management is hard, there are a lot of hard things. Order fulfillment is definitely the most challenging thing for merchants to do. And I think historically in WooCommerce, that&#8217;s always been a bit challenging. When you look at the orders list, it’s not always clear if something’s paid for or not, if the charge has been authorized or captured, if the products have been packed, if they&#8217;ve been shipped, if they&#8217;re in transit but not yet delivered, or when the item is delivered. We only have this concept of order on hold, processing, or completed. So merchants have not had a granular view of that fulfillment process, and as Patrick can attest to this, the more your store scales up, the more important that granular view becomes. How many packages do I have yet to ship? How many labels am I going to need? What’s the throughput in my warehouse or shipping operation? So that was kind of what inspired the three of us working together on this—how do we solve that problem in WooCommerce, and what other related problems can we address at the same time for merchants who are fulfilling orders and struggling to understand the status of orders and how to fulfill them, and what steps are needed? Patrick, I don’t know if you have anything to add to that, but that was kind of the problem that inspired this project, and I think we can also talk about what we want to do about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Yeah, definitely. It has been a challenge. I know Beka and I have experienced a lot, like she said, and I think this project is most exciting because a lot of the community may think that we just build in a silo, like we’re going to build what we want and you guys will live with it. But in this case, with one of the hardest problems in Woo, we have the product side represented—building extensions, building products within Woo—the scalability side, the data architecture. We’re looking at every aspect of this to build a highly customizable, highly performant flow that can support all stores.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, and I think that’s probably the biggest challenge. One of the biggest challenges of WooCommerce in general is how customizable it is, and when you’re building something like we’re working on, you have to think about all the ways that this is also going to be extended in some way. But yeah, like you say, Beka, one of the issues with how orders are presented in WooCommerce at the moment is the merchant can land on that orders page and they don’t know what to do next. There’s no clear indication from that list of orders what the next action is for each one of those orders. It’s quite a complicated thing to tackle. Obviously, the order status comes into play, and we have tons of extensions that modify the order status and add all of these interim statuses that could apply to an order. So you might see currently orders that are marked with a custom status of &#8220;shipped,&#8221; for example, but that’s not indicative of the actual status of the order. Like you said, you don’t know if it’s been fully paid for, you don’t know what&#8217;s being shipped, you don’t know when it’s delivered. There are so many aspects that aren’t covered by just having one singular order status. So one of the first points that we discussed is breaking that order status out into essentially three statuses: where you’ve got the overall order status, a payment status, and a fulfillment status. But the challenge we faced is because of how extensible WooCommerce is, and how many plugins and implementations there are that modify or use the order status in some way, we don’t want to just rush in and change how that all works in one fell swoop. So the approach we’ve taken is actually to leave the order status as it is and focus primarily on the fulfillment status. With the goal of tackling that without impacting how people use the order status—other than maybe transitioning to our new fulfillment status if they’re using a custom fulfillment status within the order status system—see how that goes, then focus on the payment status side of things, and then we’re kind of in a better position to migrate people to start using those. We’ll roll it out in a way that they’re kind of independent of each other, but can potentially impact one another. So it’s quite a challenging task, and that’s just the status aspect of it. There’s more to it than that. I don’t know if you had anything to</p>\n\n\n\n<p>add to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />No, I think it’s a great start. So definitely the fulfillment side of it. There’s obviously the payment side, as you mentioned, the payment statuses, but the fulfillment side is definitely the place where we can make the biggest impact for the largest number of merchants. Even though every merchant is going to take a payment, and not every merchant is going to have to ship something, the shipping side is definitely more painful right now. Being able to add a fulfillment status is going to make it much clearer where things are. And as you had mentioned, James, the clarity in terms of the data structure around that and also being backwards compatible is a big consideration. Right now, Woo has the concept of shipping line items, but that shipping line item doesn’t really represent a package or a shipment. It’s just a single line with an ID and a name, which can sometimes be very difficult to tie back to which rate created that line, for example. What it represents is more of a payment for a shipment and less so an actual package. So having a proper API to retrieve shipments, to add new shipments, is going to make courier integrations much better. The ability to have a standardized way of tracking information will be much better and will give developers a framework to be able to add all kinds of different shipments. While Core can handle, &#8220;I took the order and I shipped it to the customer,&#8221; in mind, we also have things like how would we handle RMAs or how would we handle sample packages or ways that this feature can be extended by plugin developers to add new functionality to the shipment concept. So I think it’s a pretty exciting thing for us to do: to have a better data standard around what represents a shipment, how that&#8217;s going to be tied to an order, and to the line item that represents how much that shipment costs, and how developers can take that and make some really, really wonderful things on top of it for all sorts of advanced or niche use cases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />You mean I won’t have 15 processes because I use three different carriers that all did things completely differently?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think that’s the challenge right now. A lot of folks might be doing things directly in WooCommerce, or they might be using an ERP system. They might be going directly to their account with a specific shipment carrier, and there’s a lot of difficulty in doing that. A good example would be, I know a lot of merchants use both FedEx and USPS for different types of packages, and some of them might be using an ERP or a system that’s helping them in one place, but some of them are logging into both of those and copying and pasting tracking numbers from FedEx over to WooCommerce order notes or something. And that’s the broken process in my mind, and something that you’re going to do hopefully every day as a merchant, we should just be able to make a lot easier—and you should be able to do that right within WooCommerce as you’re looking at the order: &#8220;Hey, I’ve packed it, I’m ready to fulfill it.&#8221; I should be able to do that whole flow inside of my WooCommerce admin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />For sure. So I think for a bird’s eye view of what we’re working on, which ultimately stems down to a fulfillment status, we’ve got the fulfillment status of an order, which we are looking at as either fulfilled, partially fulfilled, or unfulfilled. Those are the three core statuses that you could assign to an order. So in order to fulfill an order, you would need to create a shipment or a fulfillment, as Beka was describing. And on top of that, you might not want just one fulfillment for a single order; you might want to have multiple fulfillments shipped via different couriers, for example.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />And I think that piece there, James, is really key. I think a lot of folks who have used Woo have been frustrated with the fact that, &#8220;Well, I’m going to ship this order in multiple pieces, and I only have &#8216;processing&#8217; and &#8216;completed,&#8217; and my customer doesn’t get notifications for every shipment.&#8221; So that partial fulfillment concept is going to be a huge win for merchants who want to just ship things as fast as possible, even if that means multiple shipments, right? There are definitely bigger sellers who want to send more than one package, and this opens that capability up in WooCommerce in a very sane way, which I think is going to be very exciting. And to Patrick’s point about scalability and showing WooCommerce doing these really amazing things, it’s going to be a big win for those kinds of merchants.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />I was speaking to a merchant that has to do that quite often. They sell, I think they’re like a bedding store, but they also sell beds. So they have to ship massive items alongside a pillow. What they tended to do if someone ordered a bed, a mattress, and a pillow, they had to manually create another order with just the pillow, remove the pillow from the previous order, and all this kind of manual work they had to do behind the scenes just to be able to send two separate shipments and log it appropriately in whatever system they were using. So ultimately, what we need—and this is what we’re working on—is a data structure for shipments or fulfillments behind the scenes so that the data that belongs to a shipment is always the same, regardless of what kind of shipment it is, and it’s consistent. So third-party tools can integrate into it, and they can receive that data and integrate out of it as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think let’s take that to a very practical example. So not only as a seller—let&#8217;s stick with this retailer that you were talking about—this is an excellent use case. So not only can this person now just fulfill each of those line items independently, with as many shipments as they need, all of that data is stored against the WooCommerce order, easily referenced, and in a structured way. Now we can expose that with a semantic API. Let’s say I build an email marketing app. Now I can get a webhook for a fulfillment being added to an order. First of all, that tells me maybe I should be sending an item-shipped email to users. Now I will know which items have been shipped and which things are in that package, as well as which line items, and by proxy, which products were in that order. So I can be sending these beautiful item-shipped emails as a good example. If there are other actions that need to happen as each item is fulfilled, now any external system that you&#8217;re using can tap into that information easily, because it’s not just going to be some random plugin that your app might not have integration with right now. It’s a core feature with part of the core API supporting it. And I think while it’s a really big deal to just support that workflow, I think we all know that the extensibility of Woo and the ability to use it with so many different tools and apps and services—that&#8217;s really the killer feature. Having that as part of core, I think, will be a big win for every app in the ecosystem, not just that fulfillment flow specifically on the site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />For sure. And I think as a merchant, just being able to see—and this is kind of where we are at in the design explorations—as a merchant, being able to see the list of orders and then being able to see which orders have been fulfilled and which haven’t, but also which orders have been partially fulfilled but still need some sort of action. I think that&#8217;s a really important thing, and it makes that orders list much more useful than it is currently.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />We’re filling a giant gap in a number of areas. WooCommerce is often seen as this customizable, flexible e-commerce platform until you want to do backorders or B2B and other complex scenarios that core doesn’t enable well, but now it’ll just work out of the box. If you’re doing a wholesale order to your distributor of 100 mattresses, surely that doesn’t fit in a single tracking number. Maybe you only have 50, but they ordered 100. Now you ship 50, and you still have 50 to go. All these scenarios will just work out of the box.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />And to be fair, you could always build all your own custom code to do that in the past, which was the cool part about Woo, but now we’re giving people a framework that these customizations or more advanced pieces of functionality can fit into. That gives us a translation layer between Woo and apps and other plugins. Everyone having that common data store, to your point, Patrick, you can enable these really complex scenarios, but now ERP integrations, inventory integrations, or anything else that you have will have a standard way to interact with those workflows. I think that’s really going to be the exciting part of this. Even though these things may have been possible through custom code in the past, that little bit of standardization is going to go a long way towards facilitating other integrations, plugins, apps, and all kinds of features that can be built on top of this, no matter the use case, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Yeah, it&#8217;ll be less work for me to build something that doesn’t feel like a bolt-on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Exactly right! It will feel way more native, and other plugins will have the ability to understand where that data is going to be stored.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />It makes a ton of sense. Additionally to that, Patrick touched on it just then—we’ll be looking at integrating some form of shipment tracking into this, which is a feature that many have complained about missing from WooCommerce.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />I’m so excited about that change. I think it’s been such a gap. I</p>\n\n\n\n<p>know it’s hard because WooCommerce is free, right? Let’s not forget that. And you can’t have a sustainable ecosystem if everything is just free in the core platform. But I think we’ve maybe felt for a while that shipment tracking was probably a bit of a miss or something that is going to cover 80-90% at least of people using the core platform. So I’m super excited to see Woo make that decision to start to put a core shipment tracking feature available in WooCommerce as a result of this. I think it’s going to be a huge value add. And to our previous point, it gives you a standardized way for other apps to understand how to access tracking numbers as part of a fulfillment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, I’m hoping we can implement it in a way that means there can be versions of shipment tracking that expand upon the feature of whatever’s in core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Well, there’s attaching a shipping number, and then there’s having real-time updates you send to the customer. There’s value that could be added. When’s the last time you heard someone say that the WooCommerce order thank-you page is good?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think there are opportunities for carrier-specific integrations to have shipment statuses. A good example: if I’m integrated with FedEx, the basic level of that is just getting the FedEx tracking number and URL and showing it in the orders page or emails. But what if I want to have live updates because FedEx has more granular statuses for a shipment? There’s “awaiting package,” “received,” “in transit,” “out for delivery.” I think pro versions or more advanced integrations could be polling FedEx or getting webhooks from FedEx for those delivery alerts, for example, to send even more emails to your customers. I think there are some really cool opportunities that can be built on this with more advanced functionality, but at least from a core sense, you can be supporting that basic concept of: “Hey, a fulfillment is sometimes going to need a tracking number associated with it.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah. It’s very exciting stuff. I think the other important thing to touch on is that not every order is going to need shipping, and that’s something we’re discussing quite a lot. How do we frame this functionality in a way that covers digital orders and virtual orders? I think &#8220;fulfillment&#8221; makes sense as a term for covering all of those different use cases. We’ve discussed the opportunity of also fulfilling downloadable orders and virtual orders, but also having it possible to dictate—probably through code—when an order is fulfilled. So if you’re selling a membership (and Beka, I think you touched on this before), you might not want to fulfill that order, or a course, for example, you might not want to fulfill it until they finish the course. So there would be a way to fulfill orders outside of just shipping an item or shipping all of the line items.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think one of the things that’s exciting about Woo in general is that you have this long tail of use cases that can come out of every feature in these surprising and unexpected but very cool ways. That’s the beauty, I think, of open source—people will use things in ways you’ve never imagined. We tried to take that concept with fulfillment. Okay, the core reason to have a fulfillment is probably a shipment, but let’s dream a little bigger. What else could people do with this feature? I think as we all discussed this and talked to a lot of merchants, virtual goods like downloads, services, etc. may have the concept of fulfillment. You might want to skip that and not use fulfillments as a merchant, but you might want to—let’s say I sell content writing services and that’s a virtual item. I’m not going to ship anything to someone for content writing, but what I might do is say, &#8220;Hey, when I&#8217;m done, the first draft is up. Here’s my fulfillment—it’s my Google Doc,&#8221; and I send you the Google Doc link. Well, what are the parallels? What if we extract the idea and look for what&#8217;s core between a package and a Google Doc? They’ll have a name, they’ll have a URL, and they’ll have a status. So as a service provider, I could add a fulfillment with the Google Doc name and the Google Doc URL, and that’s my fulfillment to you. While I might not use that use case, I might use it differently. What we tried to do is think: what are other ways this feature can apply to different types of fulfilling a good or service, even if it&#8217;s not a package, if it&#8217;s a digital fulfillment or a service fulfillment, and how can we support that? Which things could be core for virtual sellers? If they&#8217;re not core, how do we facilitate extensibility and extensions of that? Core may not, let&#8217;s say, have a delivery date attached to fulfillment, but we need to make sure it&#8217;s possible to do such a thing, whether that&#8217;s enabling a semantic structured form of metadata. There are ways that we can do that and be mindful of that extensibility, which I think is an exciting part of this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Even touching on what you said before about the fulfillment statuses—not the overall fulfillment status of an order, but the status of a shipment or a shipment status—just having a status per shipment is something we could do via metadata in some way, or maybe it’s a permanent field that belongs to a shipment. But yeah, I think having this structured data of shipments is going to be massively useful in any number of use cases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />I mean, especially with the number of digital goods sellers that WooCommerce has. I think that’s always been one of the strengths of Woo—it’s always been fantastic for virtual goods, whether downloadable, services, courses, memberships, all kinds of different things that I think will be very exciting to see how people use this feature. We’ve definitely tried to design it in mind that while it will primarily be used for shipments and packages, we have a ton of other exciting use cases that it could be brought to bear for.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />And I think speaking of design, the key area that we’ve been focused on at the moment is how the merchant can come into the orders list and create a fulfillment from that page so they don’t have to click through to the single order page. They can create fulfillments from the orders list and complete that process a lot more quickly than they could right now, which is actually quite a challenge we’ve found in terms of designing this in its most simple form without adding too many buttons or things calling for your attention. So yeah, I think the design aspect of this is very challenging. We’ve got that screen to focus on. We’ve got, once they create a shipment or a fulfillment, how does that look? What does that screen look like? And then also we’ve got the edit order screen—what does it look like when you create a fulfillment from that screen? So we’re definitely in the very early stages in terms of design for this, and we’re focusing on how to make that experience as simple as possible, while also covering all of these different bases that we’ve talked about and all these different use cases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Not to mention as fast as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />We spent a fair amount of time in that one design call just talking about, &#8220;This page needs to be fast. You should not sit here and wait five seconds for this order to load after waiting 10 seconds for the orders list to load. We&#8217;re going to make it fast.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, exactly. That’s one of the key things. We want the merchant to be able to create and fulfill orders as quickly as possible because their time is important, and that is more than likely one of the most time-consuming things they have to do. And Patrick, I don’t know whether, but I imagine a lot of merchants are currently fulfilling orders via some other means.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Especially as stores grow, they&#8217;ll often have warehouses. Warehouses aren&#8217;t going to open up WooCommerce admin to fulfill an order, at least in a lot of cases they aren’t. So integrating these fulfillments into other platforms and having that ability will definitely be a thing. But customer service may need to look up the fulfillment that was fulfilled from the warehouse, and being able to integrate all these things or make it possible for the warehouse that fulfilled the order in some other platform to sync back to WooCommerce, which is integrated into your customer service tooling. In the little sidebar of your HelpScout or Zendesk, wherever you&#8217;ve got your order and your fulfillments, everything will be right there, all powered by one consistent data model.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />And that’s the goal. So yeah, in terms of a timeline for this, we’re very much in the design phase. We’ve scoped out how we ideally want this to look and work. There’s definitely still more discussion around specifics, particularly around what the data structure is going to look like and how we actually embed that into WooCommerce itself. I would hope next year is when we could be rolling this out in some form, but I definitely want to get feedback early and often on what we’re working on. Right now, it’s hard to find somewhere where you can do that. I think as a company, we use GitHub discussions quite a lot for more officially collecting feedback from the developer community. I use Twitter a lot, but that’s a very unofficial way of doing it—or X, as they call it now. So I don’t know if you guys have thoughts on how we can get more community involvement in this. And also, I&#8217;m conscious that we don’t want to have the classic saying of too many cooks. I imagine there’s a lot of design-based input that we could get on this in terms of visual design or even database</p>\n\n\n\n<p>design, and there are probably a lot of differing opinions on how best to approach it. But I do feel like GitHub discussions has a technical barrier. I think the people who comment there are more than likely developers or part of some sort of agency, and less likely merchants.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I would say I don’t feel like that’s a terrible thing, though, because if you’re an agency or a builder, you are oftentimes supporting the merchant and understanding their needs and use cases. Sometimes it’s helpful to have that sense of technical creativity to understand what are the possible ways we could solve this, or what is possible now and what are the gaps. I definitely welcome that side of the input. I do think it’s important, though, to hear the pain in the merchant’s own words and also to get very close to what expectations they have of the experience. Ultimately, you need each of those personas or types of people to make a really wonderful product because they’re all going to be users of the product. Even if the agency, developer, or plugin developer isn’t the person who&#8217;s in there using the UX every day—let’s say from my perspective as a plugin developer—I’m the one trying to build something on top of it. If I hate it, I’m just not going to use it. So we need all of those people to be excited to adopt what we’re doing. It’s got to be a carrot; it’s got to be a no-brainer. It’s got to be: why would I do this my own way? Why would I build my own data structure for a fulfillment when what&#8217;s in core works really wonderfully for me? I’ve had a lot of success in the past using customer councils. I think Woo has experimented with such a thing. I think it would be great to do a rotation of agencies in the space, of merchants who are actively using it, who want to see improvements in the software. I think Patrick and I are definitely in some ways fitting that persona in different ways—Patrick being on the agency side, working with high-volume sites, and myself being in the plugin developer space, trying to build things on top of WooCommerce and supporting the merchant store using these customizations and plugins. I would love to see a variety of voices involved in contributing to that. I agree with you, James—you can get inundated with feedback that’s not super valuable. So I think it’s having a small group of folks, and it’s also great if it’s not always the same people. If it rotates maybe every six months, I find that works best.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />There are so many bike sheds for us to debate what color to paint.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Woo’s had a hard time getting store feedback. Think of a big business—they go out, they’re like, &#8220;Hey, web developer, I need you to build my store. I don’t care what platform it’s on.&#8221; Some of them… So how do you get their feedback from the agency side? What I’ve tried to do, and I recommend many people do, is there are people like James, Ken, and others in the Woo space who want to talk to stores. I can certainly take the store’s feedback and go bring it to James and be like, &#8220;Hey, here’s what the store said.&#8221; But I just outright introduce the store owner to James, to Ken, to these other people within Woo who can have their own calls and ask their own questions. How you word a question and which way you ask will impact the answer. I’ve got multiple projects right now where we ask the client a question in a way that makes sense to us. They give us an answer that makes sense for the question that made sense to them, but the answer was wrong. So getting these different perspectives from different people is the best way to build a good product—lots of opinions from different perspectives, from different use cases. Spam James with all your store owner introductions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Just send it all to me. Actually, Patrick, I think it was you that introduced me to the bedding store that I spoke to previously.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />That was one of them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah. I think that’s quite valuable—to have that kind of interaction, that direct interaction with the merchant and really dig into how they use the system.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />I mean, it makes you look good as the agency: &#8220;Hey, I’m going to introduce you to the head of product at Woo who’s going to listen to your feedback,&#8221; which isn’t me. Some people might think introducing your store owner to someone else is going to take away from what you’re doing. It’s the opposite.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, it’s definitely a useful thing to do. I think even the setup we’ve got here of WooCommerce working directly with you guys from different backgrounds and different perspectives is massively valuable. I think it takes away the too-many-cooks scenario where we’re aligned on what the goal is. Myself, coming from a plugin developer background, I’m kind of consciously aware of how would I want to extend this if I was building a product on top of this. So I think that’s really useful. Beka, you were going to say something. I don’t know if you remember what it was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />I do. One thing I did want to call out: we talked a lot about fulfillments in this conversation. I think it’s the first step and most exciting. The plan is to continue building in this line. The other thing we should spend a little bit of time on is talking about payments. One of my complaints about Woo for a long time has been the way payments are represented. I’ve built around two dozen payment integrations with WooCommerce as part of SkyVerge. We have a couple at Kestrel as well that are payment integrations. One of the really challenging things has been that a payment is just a metadata blob attached to an order right now, and that’s not always very semantic or easy to work with. If an email wants to show the card type and last four digits that were used on the order, how does it do that? Well, it has to know which meta keys to look for from all these various payment gateways. That’s not great. So the other part would be what we can do on the fulfillment side, we can kind of do a parallel on the payment side, which is attaching transaction objects to an order. Each transaction would represent a payment. So number one, that’s cool for data standardization—a payment can be represented with the type, the payment name, the payment method that was used, some basic information about that payment method—and that’s exciting for all the integrations that Patrick’s pointed out on the order thank-you page, like, &#8220;Hey, we could just display this information; it’s now going to be available in the API,&#8221; and that’s pretty cool. But that also opens up the possibility for a couple of pain points for big merchants, which would be partial payments, deposits, multiple payments, multiple captures per order against different line items. There are a lot of more advanced workflows around payment processing that are difficult in WooCommerce, or you&#8217;ve got to go bespoke and build everything yourself with all your own custom code. There’s no standardization to allow for translation between apps and plugins. While fulfillments are one area, I just want to make sure people understand payments is another area where we see this need, and we can take the lessons learned from shipments and fulfillments and translate those lessons over to transactions as well, which I think will be a very exciting thing. I know Patrick, you&#8217;ve seen a lot of really weird use cases around payments. If there&#8217;s anything you want to add there that we can facilitate, just to call out that there&#8217;s some cool stuff coming there too next year once the fulfillment project can be kicked out the door.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />I’ve been screaming from the rooftops for years about let’s separate the order, payments, and shipments/fulfillments. There are so many scenarios. As businesses get bigger, they add more process. Enterprise isn&#8217;t millions more orders; it&#8217;s a lot more red tape and process around everything they do. So having the ability to separate these things out, having bespoke objects for a payment, for a fulfillment, and you could have an entire workflow in your store. I&#8217;m selling a website. The first fulfillment could be sending off a contract through DocuSign that includes a payment afterwards of a deposit. Then the second fulfillment is a logo, and then a third fulfillment is the pages, the content. All of these things could just fit in a native data structure. You wouldn’t think, &#8220;I’m going to sell a website out of WooCommerce,&#8221; but you could! Multiple payments, multiple fulfillments of digital and physical things—that’s all possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I&#8217;ll give you an example that wasn&#8217;t even enterprise-level but was similar. I bought some swag from a Woo store. They&#8217;re called Scout Books—they do notebooks with custom printing, and they use their Woo orders as invoices and to pay a deposit. They can either use two separate orders, or you have to do a fee line item and then discount the main line item. But again, you have to have two separate payments, and that&#8217;s a customization. So there&#8217;s a lot of weirdness to that in Woo, and while it&#8217;s supposed to be the most flexible e-commerce system on the planet, let&#8217;s make it easier for developers to enable such a thing. Even if we don&#8217;t have to facilitate that in the core plugin, we should at least have the on-ramps for plugins to be able to do this in a sane and semantic way. So I&#8217;m very excited for that potential because I think multiple payments against a single order will open up a ton of really cool use cases around upsells and cross-sells, post-purchase additions, like a thank-you page order bump. These are all</p>\n\n\n\n<p>things that we could make so much easier for plugin developers with that as well. Fulfillment is one piece of it, but then actually accepting the payments against the same order object is the other piece.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />That&#8217;s like I said earlier: we go from &#8220;we can do it&#8221;—all of that you described is possible…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />But it&#8217;s ugly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />We can do it well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yes, it&#8217;s ugly now, and that&#8217;s the thing that I will be so excited to fix.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />It’ll be sustainable, scalable, and performant—just all of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />And I think on top of the transactions entity being just payments, it can also be refunds, fees, disputes—all of that stuff can be within the same database, and that alone will make reporting easier as well. I think that&#8217;s the more challenging side of the two entities that we&#8217;ve discussed because once you get into those grounds, you&#8217;re then affecting how the overall order status works and the need for using it at all. Whereas I think with shipments, it&#8217;s kind of an optional thing. You could either utilize that, but your overall experience, unless you&#8217;re using it, would remain much the same. But with payments, every order has a payment—there’s no way to not use that. So it&#8217;s definitely a challenging thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />There’s a way to do it though—to not scare everyone into thinking there’s going to be this huge breaking change in WooCommerce coming. You could have a payment gateway that just marks the order as paid, like it does today, and it just marks the order paid without the data. So there’s going to be a path.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />And I think, to tie onto that, Patrick, I think as someone who has built both plugins and apps consuming the Woo API, I do want to call that out—that’s definitely part of the path that we&#8217;ve talked about: making sure that if you&#8217;re an API consumer right now and let&#8217;s say you might even be inferring financial and fulfillment statuses depending on whether the order is on hold, processing, or completed, or has a &#8220;date paid&#8221; property or not, you might have some work in your app right now that&#8217;s even circumventing these problems. One of the things we&#8217;ve discussed is not making specific breaking changes to the existing version of the API, but allowing you to upgrade to a new version of the API. Now you&#8217;ll have discrete properties and data objects for each of these things. The backwards compatibility aspect has been a big part of the discussion. It’s certainly a big project, and that&#8217;s why transactions would come after fulfillments, but there is a path to adding these things in a way that is not going to create breaking changes for stores, API consumers, or plugin developers. It would just behoove you as an app or plugin developer to adopt them because it’ll let you do much better things, and it will let you remove probably some of your internal logic that you&#8217;ve had to maintain. I think it’ll just be the smart decision to make the updates to adopt this once it’s out there, but definitely not something that would pull the rug out from underneath you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, I mean, that’s definitely the approach we’re going for. I think that’s why we’ve separated it out into these phases of work. We don’t want to just one day release a completely different way to manage orders all in one go. So yeah, I think that’s a great point to raise. That is the phase two, I guess, of what I would call the order status project. Ultimately, it’s all boiling down to having these separated order statuses for orders, even though there’s a whole iceberg of a mechanism that goes on behind the scenes for both scenarios.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />But to tie it back to our point at the beginning, the goal is just so much more clarity around order management. So I think both of these things can add wonderful clarity for even more complex use cases than just: I have a single item in an order, a single payment, and a single shipment. Woo is totally fine for that today, but as we&#8217;ve seen, the beauty is that it can be used for way more complex things too. We can have a cleaner way to support those complex things while still having a really beautiful, snappy, fast, and easy interface for people in the orders list.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Agreed. Cool. I think we&#8217;ve had a pretty good discussion about what we’re working on, unless anyone’s got any additional points to raise about the project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />I heard from James we&#8217;re going to be live in a year!</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />He’s going to hold you to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />For fulfillment! To be honest, I&#8217;m hoping less than a year. I would hope…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />I think Patrick and I are just excited to see the project happening. We&#8217;ve talked about this for a long time in Woo—how it would be a great improvement. I would just say thanks, James, for giving us the opportunity to collaborate and contribute to it. It’s nice to have more of a work-in-public mindset and to have more visibility, I think, as developers. Hopefully other folks too, because Woo is definitely more powerful when we understand even the extensibility use cases, not just core use cases. Not everything will be a core use case, but the extensibility is definitely something that is very powerful to facilitate and make possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />On which note, I think it would be useful to say how people can contact me or you. I’m on Twitter/X as @jamesckemp, which is probably the best place to reach me, to be honest. Beka?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, also on Twitter—I refuse to call it X.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />I feel like I have to…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />On the bird app—@beka_rice. As James mentioned earlier, our website is kestrelwp.com, contact form. There’s only a few of us, so the contact form will hit me too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Patrick, and I’m also on Twitter—@pmgarman, G-A-R-M-A-N. You can find us at mindsize.com. Definitely reach out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Awesome. Well, I hope we can do this again, potentially next month, and we’ll keep people updated on where we’re at on the project as a whole, any kind of roadblocks we’re up against, or any new decisions we need to make. I think it&#8217;ll be quite a fun project to keep an eye on. But yeah, thanks for joining me and thanks for being willing to contribute to this project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Thanks, James.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Thank you.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode of <strong><em>Woo ProductChat</em></strong>, host <strong>James Kemp</strong> makes his debut alongside <strong>Beka Rice from Kestrel and Patrick Garman from Mindsize</strong>. James describes this monthly episode as what they&#8217;re working on at WooCommerce behind the scenes that maybe you, the community, don&#8217;t generally get to hear about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They jump into the ongoing development projects at WooCommerce, particularly focusing on improving order management. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Beka and Patrick,  join James to explore solutions for streamlining the order fulfillment process, addressing the complexities of partial shipping and shipment tracking within WooCommerce. They discuss the importance of creating a structured shipment data model and the impact that could have on merchants, as well as envision future developments in payment transaction handling to enhance usability and customization. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The conversation further highlights the effort to involve the community for feedback and discuss potential enhancements, balancing the technical and experiential aspects of development. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Takeaways</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Revamping Order Fulfillment</strong>: WooCommerce is addressing long-standing challenges in order fulfillment by introducing a more granular fulfillment status system. The new system will include three states: <strong>fulfilled, partially fulfilled, and unfulfilled</strong>, making it easier for merchants to manage orders and shipments more effectively.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Splitting Order Statuses</strong>: The project will introduce a more refined order status system, splitting it into three categories: <strong>order status</strong>, <strong>payment status</strong>, and <strong>fulfillment status</strong>. This separation will provide clearer insights into each phase of the order process, while minimizing disruption to existing workflows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Focus on Extensibility</strong>: The new fulfillment and order management features will be highly <strong>customizable</strong> and <strong>extensible</strong>, allowing third-party developers to build on the new data structures and support varied use cases like multiple shipments or integration with different shipping carriers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Payment Handling Overhaul</strong>: WooCommerce’s payment system is being revamped with the introduction of <strong>transaction objects</strong> to handle payments, refunds, fees, and disputes. This structured approach will simplify managing <strong>partial payments</strong>, <strong>deposits</strong>, and <strong>multi-payment captures</strong>, making it easier to work with complex payment scenarios.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Better Workflow for Merchants: </strong>The project aims to enhance merchants&#8217; efficiency by enabling them to create and manage shipments <strong>directly from the orders list</strong>. This will streamline the fulfillment process, especially for merchants handling large volumes of orders, without requiring them to click into individual orders.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Shipment Tracking Integration</strong>: A <strong>core shipment tracking feature</strong> will be introduced, which has been a frequently requested addition. This will standardize how tracking numbers are handled and displayed, improving transparency and customer communication.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Collaborative Approach:</strong> WooCommerce is working closely with developers and merchants in the community to ensure the new order management features meet real-world needs. By seeking feedback throughout the development process, the team aims to make these changes both useful and adaptable to a wide range of use cases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Connect</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://twitter.com/jamesckemp\">James on X</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://twitter.com/beka_rice\">Beka on X</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://kestrelwp.com\">KestrelWP</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://twitter.com/pmgarman\">Patrick on X</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://mindsize.com/\">Mindsize</a></strong></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Chapter Titles with Timestamps</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:00 Welcome to Woo Product Chat <br />00:55 Meet James, Beka, and Patrick <br />01:16 Diving into WooCommerce Order Management <br />05:14 Challenges in Order Fulfillment <br />09:27 Introducing New Fulfillment Statuses <br />19:55 Enhancing Shipment Tracking <br />24:17 Exploring Virtual Fulfillment <br />26:36 Designing a Seamless Fulfillment Process <br />28:21 Integrating Fulfillment with Other Platforms <br />30:09 Community Involvement and Feedback <br />35:35 Enhancing Payment Systems <br />42:50 Future Plans and Collaboration <br />44:59 Contact Information and Closing Remarks</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 09 Oct 2024 09:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:25;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:47:\"WordPress.org blog: Please Welcome Mary Hubbard\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17900\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:46:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/proud-mary/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:843:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1626\" height=\"1002\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/10/maryhubbard.png?resize=1626%2C1002&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17920\" />\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re proud to announce that <a href=\"https://maryhubbard.blog/\">Mary Hubbard</a> (<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/4thhubbard/\">@4thhubbard</a>) has resigned as the Head of TikTok Americas, Governance and Experience, and will be starting as the next Executive Director of WordPress.org on October 21<sup>st</sup>!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mary previously worked at Automattic from 2020 to 2023, and was the Chief Product Officer for WordPress.com, so she has deep knowledge of WordPress and expertise across business, product, marketplaces, program management, and governance.</p>\n</div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 08 Oct 2024 19:26:15 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Matt Mullenweg\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:26;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"WPTavern: WPGraphQL to Become a Canonical Plugin as its Creator Joins Automattic\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=174387\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:91:\"https://wptavern.com/wpgraphql-to-become-a-canonical-plugin-as-its-creator-joins-automattic\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:6400:\"<p>WPGraphQL, a popular plugin that provides an extendable GraphQL schema and API for WordPress sites,  is set to become a canonical plugin on WordPress.org. Its creator and maintainer, Jason Bahl, has <a href=\"https://www.wpgraphql.com/2024/10/07/wpgraphql-becomes-a-canonical-plugin-my-move-to-automattic\">joined Automattic</a> after spending 3.5 years at WP Engine, allowing him to continue his work on WPGraphQL.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-graphql/\">WPGraphQL</a> adds a flexible and powerful GraphQL API to WordPress, enabling efficient querying and interaction with your site’s data. It allows developers to interact with WordPress data using GraphQL queries instead of the traditional REST API, making it ideal for building modern, headless WordPress applications.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Canonical Plugins</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Canonical plugins were <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2009/12/canonical-plugins/\">first introduced</a> to the WordPress community in 2009 to provide users with optional features that offer higher reliability than regular plugins.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Canonical plugins would be plugins that are community developed (multiple developers, not just one person) and address the most popular functionality requests with superlative execution. These plugins would be GPL and live in the WordPress.org repo, and would be developed in close connection with WordPress core. There would be a very strong relationship between core and these plugins that ensured that a) the plugin code would be secure and the best possible example of coding standards, and b) that new versions of WordPress would be tested against these plugins prior to release to ensure compatibility. There would be a screen within the Plugins section of the WordPress admin to feature these canonical plugins as a kind of Editor’s Choice or Verified guarantee. These plugins would be a true extension of core WordPress in terms of compatibility, security and support.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WPGraphQL &amp; Jason Bahl’s Journey</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Jason Bahl launched the WPGraphQL plugin in 2016. In 2019, he <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/jason-bahl-joins-the-gatsby-team-to-work-on-wpgraphql-full-time\">joined the Gatsby Team</a> to work on WPGraphQL full-time and continued there till joining WP Engine 2021 as a Principal Software Engineer maintaining WPGraphQL.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>About <a href=\"https://www.wpgraphql.com/2021/02/07/whats-next-for-wpgraphql\">leaving Gatsby</a>, he said, “The team I was part of was asking me to start transitioning to work more on other Gatsby integrations, such as Contentful and Shopify, and work less on WordPress and WPGraphQL. This doesn’t mean Gatsby was abandoning WordPress or WPGraphQL, just that I would need to spend less time on it and prioritize other things… WP Engine is investing in the future of headless WordPress, and they see WPGraphQL as an important part of that future.”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Working at WP Engine, he published over 100 releases of WPGraphQL, re-architected WPGraphQL for ACF, introduced WPGraphQL Smart Cache, and helped countless users successfully deploy decoupled sites powered by WPGraphQL.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He shared this about WP Engine: “While WP Engine has treated me well personally, <strong>the focus on open-source contributions from the organization has declined during my time there. </strong>My time was also reallocated away from WPGraphQL and community projects as internal initiatives took priority. Any company needs to focus on internal growth. Still, I believe there’s a conversation to be had about how that fits into the broader open-source community and whether it supports long-term success. Several other former colleagues and I tried to talk about how WP Engine could better participate in Open Source, but those conversations didn’t always gain traction. Hopefully, those conversations can begin again. I don’t have the answers, but I do know there is a problem.”</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jason’s Opinion About Matt and Automattic</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Jason has made it clear that he does not agree with everything Matt has done. “<strong>I’ve told Matt directly that I don’t agree with everything he’s done — and he has welcomed the disagreement. </strong>For example, I don’t think WordCamp US was the right time or place for his speech. I also do not agree with blocking WP Engine customers from WordPress.org without more notice. Should WordPress.org be required to remain a free service forever? Not necessarily. But should long-time users receive advance notice when significant changes are made? I think so.”</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Leadership often involves making uncomfortable choices that others might not fully understand or agree with. His historical actions have led WordPress to its current success, and I believe that bold moves—though uncomfortable—are sometimes necessary to ensure the long-term future of WordPress. As a maintainer of open-source software, my livelihood depends on people like Matt, who are willing to keep WordPress relevant in the years to come.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>He also pointed out Automattic’s long history of nurturing open-source projects. He believes that joining Automattic will benefit WPGraphQL users and developers building decoupled WordPress experiences.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;Automattic’s track record as a fantastic steward of open-source projects is well known, and I believe it’s the <strong>perfect home for WPGraphQL</strong>. This move will continue to keep WPGraphQL free and open source while bringing more visibility and contributions from the community.&#8221;, he said</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Response From the Community&nbsp;</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The community was excited about Jason’s move to join Automattic.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXfRkng2Oq1dNyhh4Yj2HrWK9lZUnwXOj9Ht-YyfPoeXM_WM8ZjDy2odQvxn2gszIIzMCN8_y5jeV64xRE5YAPBcCfKgBXBX5dgS84rXK5JPe6M_2O8VBef_2hLsgsjCCwevs10naU6zDfNu4qCCObH8tS9R?key=TInnMVVnqSVBTlHQ6XzXXQ\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p>“WPGraphQL has always been and will continue to be free open-source software.”, Jason reassured the community.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 08 Oct 2024 18:15:44 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:27;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"Gravatar: Personalized SaaS Onboarding: A Checklist for the Perfect User Journey\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2186\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/10/08/saas-onboarding-checklist/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23546:\"<p>SaaS onboarding involves guiding new users through their first steps with your product, helping them understand your software&#8217;s value, and setting them up for long-term success.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It’s something we recommend every business take seriously because effective onboarding is the key to unlocking user retention and reducing churn rates. <strong>When users quickly grasp how your product can solve their problems, they&#8217;re more likely to stick around. </strong>This translates to increased customer lifetime value, higher revenue, and more engaged users who actually enjoy using your software.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re not sure where to start, this in-depth checklist is for you! From personalization strategies to interactive product tours, we&#8217;ll cover everything you need to craft an onboarding experience that will have your users saying &#8220;Aha!&#8221; instead of &#8220;Huh?&#8221;&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Key components and elements of SaaS onboarding</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Creating a stellar SaaS onboarding experience isn&#8217;t about throwing a bunch of fancy features at your users and hoping something sticks. Instead, you need to carefully craft each element to guide them toward success.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s break down the essential components that will make your onboarding process shine.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>1. Clear goals and success metrics</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>First things first: you need to know where you&#8217;re going. <strong>Setting clear goals for your onboarding process is like having a GPS for your product&#8217;s success.&nbsp;</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here&#8217;s how to nail it:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Define specific objectives:</strong> Don&#8217;t just aim to &#8220;improve onboarding.&#8221; Get specific. Want to increase user activation by 20%? Reduce abandonment by 15%? Or maybe drive secondary feature adoption up by 30%? Whatever your goals, make them measurable and time-bound. Consider using the OKR (Objectives and Key Results) framework to keep your team aligned and focused.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Actionable metrics:</strong> Numbers are your friends here. Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) like activation rate, feature adoption, conversion rate, monthly active users, churn rate, and time-to-value are your north stars. These metrics will tell you if you&#8217;re on the right track or if you need to make a U-turn.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Align with business goals: </strong>Your onboarding goals shouldn&#8217;t exist in a vacuum. Make sure they&#8217;re in sync with your broader business objectives. If your company is aiming for rapid growth, your onboarding might focus on quick activation and viral sharing. If you&#8217;re after increased revenue per user, you might spotlight premium features during onboarding.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember, these goals aren&#8217;t set in stone. As you gather data and learn more about your users, don&#8217;t be afraid to adjust your targets and be flexible.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>2. Excellent user experience</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Now that you&#8217;ve got your goals sorted, it&#8217;s time to focus on the star of the show: <strong>your users</strong>. Creating an excellent user experience during onboarding can mean the difference between a user who sticks around and one who bounces right off.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Personalize the onboarding flows:</strong> You can use the data you collect during sign-up to <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/09/06/onboarding-user-experience/\">tailor the onboarding experience to each user</a>. Are they a small business owner or an enterprise manager? A tech whiz or a newbie? Adjust your onboarding flow accordingly. Here is an example from <a href=\"https://www.videoask.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Videoask</a> that starts their onboarding by asking how big the user’s business is.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2322\" height=\"1250\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/videoask-company-size.png\" alt=\"Selecting the business size during onboarding in Videoask\" class=\"wp-image-2188\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Add interactive product tours:</strong> Don&#8217;t just tell users about your awesome features – show them! Create engaging, interactive walkthroughs that guide users through your product&#8217;s key functionalities. And here&#8217;s a pro tip: <strong>gamify these tours</strong>. Add progress bars, achievement badges, or even small rewards. It&#8217;ll make the learning process feel less like a chore and more like an adventure.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Include in-app guidance: </strong>Your users shouldn&#8217;t feel like they&#8217;re navigating a maze. Provide contextual help right where they need it. Tooltips like the one from <a href=\"https://asana.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Asana</a> below, pop-ups, and hotspots can offer just-in-time assistance without overwhelming users. And remember, less is often more. Don&#8217;t bombard users with information – give them what they need when they need it.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"686\" height=\"400\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/asana-tooltips-1.png\" alt=\"Tooltips in Asana\" class=\"wp-image-2189\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Train a responsive support team:</strong> Even with the best in-app guidance, some users will still have questions. Make sure there is an easily-accessible help center and your support team is ready to assist whenever. Quick response times and knowledgeable assistance can turn a potentially frustrating experience into a positive one.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"1838\" height=\"1272\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/videoask-help-center.png\" alt=\"Videoask help center tab\" class=\"wp-image-2190\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>3. Reliable analytics</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;ve set your goals and crafted a killer user experience. But how do you know if it&#8217;s actually working? Here’s what you need to do:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Track key metrics:</strong> Use analytics tools to monitor activation rates, feature adoption, conversion rates, monthly active users, and other KPIs (more on that in a little bit). These numbers will tell the story of your onboarding success (or areas for improvement).</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Data-driven decisions: </strong>Analytics aren&#8217;t just for show – they should drive your decision-making process. Is your activation rate lower than expected? Maybe it&#8217;s time to simplify your sign-up process. Are users dropping off at a specific point in your product tour? That could be a sign that you need to revamp that section.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>User feedback collection:</strong> Numbers are great, but don&#8217;t forget the qualitative data. Implement ways to gather user feedback during the onboarding process. This could be through quick in-app surveys, email follow-ups, or even user interviews. Sometimes, the most valuable insights come straight from the horse&#8217;s mouth.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>And don&#8217;t just collect this data – use it</strong>. Regularly review your analytics and user feedback to identify areas for improvement. Your onboarding process should be a living, breathing thing that evolves with your users&#8217; needs.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>SaaS onboarding best practices and strategies</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Now that we&#8217;ve covered the key components, we can dive into some advanced techniques and strategies to take your onboarding from good to great.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>1. Personalize the onboarding experience</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Gather user data:</strong> Start collecting valuable information right from the get-go. Use smart sign-up forms and welcome surveys to understand your users&#8217; goals, pain points, and experience levels. But remember, don&#8217;t ask for their life story – keep it brief and relevant.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>User segmentation:</strong> Once you&#8217;ve got that juicy data, put it to work. Segment your users based on characteristics like role, industry, or experience level. A startup founder and an enterprise manager have different needs – your onboarding should reflect that.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Dynamic content:</strong> Here&#8217;s where the magic happens. Use the data you&#8217;ve collected to dynamically adapt your onboarding content. Show different features or use cases based on the user&#8217;s profile. A marketing pro might be interested in your analytics features, while a project manager might care more about task management tools.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Gravatar integration:</strong> Here&#8217;s a pro tip – integrate Gravatar into your onboarding flow. With its API, you can <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/avatars/images/\">automatically pull in user avatars</a> and basic info, adding a personal touch without any extra effort from the user.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>2. Implement interactive product tours</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Action-focused tours: </strong>Don&#8217;t just show users your features &#8211; guide them through actually using them. Have you got a note-taking app within your product? Have users create their first note during the tour. It&#8217;s all about learning by doing.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Gamification techniques:</strong> Who says learning can&#8217;t be fun? Add progress bars, achievement badges, or even small rewards for completing onboarding steps. It taps into our natural love for progression and achievement, making the whole process more engaging.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Step-by-step guidance:</strong> Break your tour into bite-sized chunks. Guide users through one action at a time, building up to more complex features. It&#8217;s like teaching someone to swim – you start in the shallow end before diving into the deep stuff.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>User feedback:</strong> Remember to ask users how they&#8217;re finding the tour. A simple &#8220;Was this helpful?&#8221; at the end of each step can provide valuable insights. And if they say no, that&#8217;s your cue to improve that part of the tour.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>3. Utilize in-app messaging and contextual guidance</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Timely support:</strong> Use in-app messages to provide support based on user actions. If a user has been staring at a blank project page for a while, why not pop up a message offering some starter templates?</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Contextual tooltips:</strong> Implement tooltips that offer quick explanations when users hover over different features. It&#8217;s like having a knowledgeable friend whispering helpful tips in your ear.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>AI chatbots:</strong> Consider integrating an AI chatbot for real-time, personalized assistance. It can answer common questions, suggest relevant features, and even guide users through complex processes. Just make sure it&#8217;s actually helpful and not a source of frustration.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>4. Showcase social proof</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Customer testimonials:</strong> Sprinkle in some glowing words from happy customers. It reassures new users that they&#8217;ve made the right choice.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Case studies: </strong>Share success stories that demonstrate how other users have benefited from your product. Bonus points if you can match these to the user&#8217;s industry or use case.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>User reviews:</strong> If you&#8217;ve got great ratings on review sites, don&#8217;t be shy about showing them off. It&#8217;s like a seal of approval from the wider user community.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Gravatar integration:</strong> Here&#8217;s another place where Gravatar shines. Use it to display user avatars alongside testimonials and reviews. It adds a human touch and makes the social proof feel more authentic and relatable.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>5. Continuously iterate and optimize</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The work doesn&#8217;t stop once you&#8217;ve launched your onboarding process. The key to long-term success is continuous improvement.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Monitor key metrics:</strong> Are activation rates improving? Is time-to-value decreasing? Let the data guide your optimization efforts.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Collect user feedback: </strong>Regularly ask users for their thoughts on the onboarding process. You might be surprised by what you learn. Maybe that feature you thought was intuitive is actually confusing users.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>A/B testing: </strong>Don&#8217;t be afraid to experiment. Try different versions of your onboarding flow and see what performs best. Maybe a video tutorial works better than a step-by-step guide for some features.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Use all this information to make informed decisions about changes to your onboarding process. It&#8217;s not about following hunches – it&#8217;s about listening to what your users and your data are telling you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember, creating a great SaaS onboarding experience is more art than science. It requires creativity, empathy, and a willingness to continually learn and adapt. But with these strategies in your toolkit, you&#8217;re well on your way to creating an onboarding experience that users will love.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Metrics and KPIs for SaaS onboarding</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>You can&#8217;t improve what you don&#8217;t measure. That&#8217;s why tracking the right metrics is crucial for optimizing your SaaS onboarding process. Let&#8217;s dive into the key performance indicators that will help you gauge the effectiveness of your onboarding and drive continuous improvement.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Time to Value (TTV)</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>TTV is the time it takes for a new user to realize the value of your SaaS product. A shorter TTV indicates a more effective onboarding process – the quicker users see the value, the more likely they are to stick around.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Track the time from user sign-up to the completion of key actions that demonstrate value. This could be creating their first project, sending their first message, or generating their first report – whatever represents the core value of your product.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Streamline your onboarding process by cutting out any unnecessary steps.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use in-app messaging to guide users quickly to key features.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Leverage Gravatar to auto-populate user profiles, reducing friction and speeding up the initial setup.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Trial to paid conversion rate</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>This metric represents the percentage of users who upgrade from a free trial to a paid subscription. A high conversion rate suggests that users are finding enough value during the trial to justify paying for your product.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To track this, keep an eye on the number of trial users who upgrade to a paid plan within a specific timeframe, usually within the trial period or shortly after. Divide this by the total number of users that were on the free trial at the start of the period and multiply by 100 to get a percentage.</p>\n\n\n\n<table class=\"has-contrast-background-color has-background has-fixed-layout\"><tbody><tr><td><strong>Trial to paid conversion rate = (Users that upgraded from the free trial / Total number of users that got a free trial) x 100</strong></td></tr></tbody></table>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Clearly communicate the benefits of upgrading throughout the trial period.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use targeted, personalized messages to encourage conversion as the trial end date approaches.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Integrate Gravatar to create a more personalized experience, which can boost user engagement and, in turn, conversion rates.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Customer onboarding completion rate</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Think of this as your onboarding graduation rate. It&#8217;s the percentage of users who complete your entire onboarding process. A high completion rate indicates that your onboarding process is engaging and easy to follow. It&#8217;s a good sign that users are setting themselves up for success with your product. To calculate this, divide the number of users who complete all onboarding steps by the total number of new users.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Break your onboarding into manageable chunks. Don&#8217;t overwhelm users with too much at once.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use progress indicators to show users how far they&#8217;ve come and what&#8217;s left.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Utilize Gravatar to auto-fill user information where possible, reducing the effort required from users.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Customer engagement score</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>This composite metric measures how actively users are interacting with your product. It&#8217;s your product stickiness gauge. High engagement scores typically correlate with higher retention rates and customer satisfaction.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To measure this, calculate the sum of various weighted engagement metrics such as login frequency, feature usage, and session duration.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Use in-app prompts to encourage users to explore different features.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Segment users based on engagement levels and tailor your communication accordingly.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Leverage Gravatar to personalize user interactions, making engagement feel more meaningful and relevant.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Customer Satisfaction Score (CSAT)</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>CSAT is your &#8220;How did we do?&#8221; metric. It measures how satisfied users are with your onboarding process. High CSAT scores indicate a positive onboarding experience, which can lead to higher retention rates and positive word-of-mouth.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To gather this data, use surveys with simple questions like &#8220;How would you rate your onboarding experience?&#8221; with a 1-5 scale.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Regularly collect and analyze user feedback to identify areas for improvement.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Act on the feedback you receive. Users appreciate when their input leads to visible changes.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Feature adoption rate</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>This is your &#8220;Are they actually using it?&#8221; metric. It represents the percentage of users who start using key features of your product. High feature adoption rates indicate that users are discovering and utilizing your product&#8217;s core functionalities, which often correlates with higher retention.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To measure this, track the usage of specific features by new users over a defined period. Divide this figure by the total number of new users during the period and multiply by 100 to get a percentage.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Highlight key features during the onboarding process through tutorials and in-app messages.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Provide contextual help and resources to assist users in understanding and using features.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Product adoption rate</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>This is your big-picture adoption metric, representing the overall percentage of users who adopt and regularly use your product. High adoption rates are crucial for your SaaS product&#8217;s long-term success and growth.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To measure this, track the number of active users over a specific time period, often measured monthly (Monthly Active Users or MAU). Use the same formula as the feature adoption rate to calculate a percentage.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Ensure your onboarding process clearly demonstrates your product&#8217;s value proposition.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Provide ongoing support and resources to help users get the most out of your product.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Use Gravatar to create a more personalized, engaging user experience from day one.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>User Retention Rate</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>This is your &#8220;Are they sticking around?&#8221; metric. It represents the percentage of users who continue to use your product over time. High retention rates indicate that users find ongoing value in your product, which is crucial for sustainable growth and reducing churn.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To measure this, start by tracking the number of users who remain active after a certain period, such as 30, 60, or 90 days. Subtract the number of new users from the number of users at the end of the period. Divide the resulting figure by the number of customers at the start of the period and multiply by 100 to get a percentage.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tips:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Provide continuous value through regular updates and new features.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Engage users with personalized communication and support.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Leverage Gravatar to maintain a personalized user experience throughout the customer lifecycle, making users feel valued and connected.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Gravatar: Your partner in SaaS onboarding</strong></h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"1473\" height=\"918\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service-2.png\" alt=\"Gravatar – Profiles as a Service\" class=\"wp-image-2192\" />\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a>, short for Globally Recognized Avatar, is a service by <a href=\"https://automattic.com/\">Automattic</a> that can significantly enhance your SaaS onboarding process. Its primary function is <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/\">managing and sharing user profile data</a>, including avatars, bios, and preferences, completely for free with the <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/profiles/rest-api/\">Gravatar REST API</a>.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By linking a user&#8217;s email to their profile information, Gravatar offers several key benefits:</p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Consistency across platforms, reducing friction in the signup process.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Enhanced personalization from the moment a user registers.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Streamlined onboarding by auto-populating user profiles.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Practical applications include:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Personalized welcome messages using the user&#8217;s name and industry.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Customized product tours based on user roles or experience.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Improved community building with familiar avatars in forums or user directories.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Implementing Gravatar is straightforward, thanks to our API and extensive documentation, making it a low-effort, high-impact addition to your onboarding strategy.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ready to elevate your onboarding? Check out our <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/\">developer documentation</a> to learn more about integrating Gravatar into your platform.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 08 Oct 2024 17:50:32 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:28;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:102:\"Do The Woo Community: Exploring Accessibility and Neurodiversity in WordPress with Anne Mieke Bovelett\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85962\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:101:\"https://dothewoo.io/exploring-accessibility-and-neurodiversity-in-wordpress-with-anne-mieke-bovelett/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18603:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-12 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p class=\"has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f\">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-11 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-2 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-8 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-3 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-7 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"750\" height=\"750\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Kinsta-Hosting.jpg?resize=750%2C750&ssl=1\" alt=\"Kinsta Hosting\" class=\"wp-image-85514\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-4\"><strong><a href=\"https://kinsta.com/?utm_source=dothewoo&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=website\">Kinsta</a></strong>: Offering a high-performance hosting platform with managed WordPress hosting, powered by Google Cloud, ensuring fast load times and robust security. </p>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-3 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-10 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-5 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-9 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1509\" height=\"1038\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Woo-logo-color.png?resize=1509%2C1038&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-77744\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"wp-container-content-6\"><strong><a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/products/\">Woo Marketplace</a></strong> &#8211; Grow your business with hundreds of solutions for your clients or your own store.</p>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p><strong>Birgit:</strong><br />Hi, I am your host Birgit, and we are here with another episode of <em>The WordPress Way</em>, where we dive deep into the heart and soul of WordPress, exploring the cutting edge and the current with incredible people shaping the future. I&#8217;m very pleased today to have our beloved friend, or my beloved friend, as a guest—Anne Mieke Bovelett. Anne is a passionate, multilingual specialist for both WordPress and accessibility in Germany. She is also an accessibility consultant, public speaker, and workforce trainer, especially for full-site editing. Please, dear Anne, would you like to tell our audience a bit more about yourself?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne:</strong><br />Well, you already gave me a very good introduction. Maybe it&#8217;s also good to know, given the topic of our show today, to tell people a bit about the other side of my background. I come from a bit of a crazy family. I like to joke about it in my bio, saying I come from a family of crazy artists, professors, and inventors, but it&#8217;s not really exaggerated. That&#8217;s what it is. All my life, I grew up with my mother and father not telling me, &#8220;Oh, be careful what you do, you might run into this kind of trouble.&#8221; Instead, they taught us, &#8220;If you want to reach something, go find out what you need to do to get there.&#8221; That in itself is very positive, but if you&#8217;re like me and you&#8217;ve got ADHD, you&#8217;re going to end up running around, jumping from topic to topic, thinking, &#8220;This is it, this is it!&#8221; and then changing your mind after a year or a year and a half. But a steady factor in my life has been everything involving web creation, web design, and content. Four years ago, I ran into that famous topic called accessibility, and I came home. Yeah, that’s basically it. If I keep talking, I’m probably going to ruin your questions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Birgit:</strong><br />No worries. I love listening to you. I also really admire how vocal you are about accessibility, especially for someone with neurodivergent traits. Given our conversations, whether on web cams or at CloudFest, I’ve seen the strength you bring in raising awareness about accessibility, inclusive language, and how just a few small tweaks can create a better experience for everyone on a website. You mentioned recently that you come from a family of creative artists—crazy artists, as you called them. Would you mind sharing more about your personal journey that led you to become an advocate for accessibility, particularly focusing on ADHD and neurodiversity? You mentioned you were diagnosed with ADHD. How did you find your way into this direction, both personally and professionally?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne:</strong><br />Well, interestingly enough, I was already thinking about accessibility when I was very active on Twitter. I saw this tweet from a lady—I’ve written about it on my blog, and I can share the link with you later if you&#8217;d like. In the tweet, this lady said, &#8220;My father was crying on the phone. He needed help to do something on the web again because he&#8217;s blind. And if you’re now wondering if your website is accessible, then it certainly is not. Go learn.&#8221; I still get very emotional when I think back to that because I had heard more about accessibility and had worked with people who depend on it. In the team of CMS Made Simple, my previous CMS of choice along with WordPress, it never hit close to home until then.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That tweet changed everything. I went into a frenzy, thinking, “Oh no! I’ve been creating experiences for people that made them feel unwelcome because they couldn’t use the sites I had built.&#8221; I’d been doing that since 1998, and that was a painful realization—22 years of doing something that could have been done better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That same year, I got diagnosed with ADHD. I was 49. I have worn many hats, have many specialties—which is common among people with ADHD, as we tend to chase this substance called dopamine. We’re often labeled as lazy or unfocused, and people tell us, “You need to learn to focus.” The thing is, I <em>can</em> focus. I can focus for 12 hours straight and forget to eat or drink. The problem is, I don’t always get to choose what I focus on, and I didn’t know that for most of my life.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When I was employed—before I started my full-time business in 2009—I always struggled to fit in. It was nearly impossible. I admired all these super-organized people who would get their tasks done and tick off their to-do lists, while I would freeze up over things that they could do in a few minutes. But I was also the one who could manage very stressful situations or complex tasks that others found overwhelming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To be honest, the world has often felt like a hostile place to me because I couldn&#8217;t do things that &#8220;normal&#8221; people can do. It’s like being a goldfish that’s judged for not being able to climb a tree. When you grow up like that and don’t know you’re different because your brain chemistry is different, it’s easy to try to become what others want you to be—to wear that suit, to mask. Masking is a big thing. It turns out I’m not only ADHD; I’m also on the spectrum, which explains some other quirks I have. But I don’t let these things define me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Getting diagnosed with ADHD was a massive relief. It helped me realize that I had been trying to change things about myself that I couldn&#8217;t change. I will never be that goldfish that wins a contest in tree climbing, but I can do other things. One of my biggest passions has always been community. I could be successful as a solopreneur, but doing something that benefits a whole community is far more fulfilling.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Another challenge with ADHD is that we tend to get bored quickly. When I started working with accessibility, I was worried. I know I can motivate a large crowd, but it’s difficult if I burn out afterward. So, I asked myself, &#8220;How can I make myself replaceable?&#8221; That led me to focus on something that has sustained my interest for four years—helping companies divide the responsibility for accessibility across teams. It’s joyful to see companies like Great Suite in Munich adopting accessibility, and the movement is growing. The Accessibility Checker by Equalize Digital, for example, automatically flags issues in WordPress that can be improved, catching 30-35% of problems. People often worry about the remaining 65%, but most issues are easy to fix by the right person.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Birgit:</strong><br />That’s amazing! When I listen to you, I get this image in my mind of someone with minority divergent traits, such as ADHD or being on the spectrum, having this broader perspective. Do you feel you have a bird’s eye view on some topics and can connect dots that others might miss?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne:</strong><br />Yes, that’s a great observation. Many neurodivergent people, like those with ADHD or autism, are super-fast thinkers. Our brains move at 500 miles an hour. As long as there’s context, we can connect the dots others might not see. The challenge is that because our brains move so fast, it’s difficult to translate these thoughts into a message others can easily understand. I often ramble on, seeing all the logic, while others say, &#8220;You lost me a while ago.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Websites and apps often lose us within seconds. For example, I struggle with sites that have sliders, animations, or parallax effects, where the background moves slower than the foreground. It’s distracting. I always ask designers, &#8220;Do you want color or conversion?&#8221; because over-designed websites can obstruct functionality and drive customers away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If companies want to improve their conversions, they should focus on creating functional, minimalistic designs. Look at some of the highest-converting websites in the world—they are simple, especially since most visitors use mobile devices. People complain that modern websites look the same, but that’s because they’re designed to be functional. Accessibility benefits everyone, not just people with disabilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Birgit:</strong><br />I completely agree! I know people who rely on smartphones or tablets for everything, organizing their lives, including shopping. Websites should definitely be accessible, especially on mobile devices.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne:</strong><br />Exactly. And it&#8217;s not just about making things accessible for people with disabilities. Even neurotypical people are getting overstimulated by all the noise online. Some young people are setting their phones to grayscale to reduce sensory overload. If designers can create websites that still work and convert well in black and white, they’re ahead of the game.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Birgit:</strong><br />That’s so insightful. As we wrap up, what advice would you give to our listeners? How can they contribute to a more accessible web, especially in the e-commerce space?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne:</strong><br />My top advice: Get your website user-tested, and not just by people with visual or auditory impairments. Include neurodivergent people too. They’ll tell you if your forms are unclear or if your design is confusing. Also, break down the responsibility for accessibility across teams.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Content is key—make sure it&#8217;s perceivable and robust. Simple changes like avoiding &#8220;click here&#8221; as link text and improving your alt text can make a huge difference. Put yourself in someone else&#8217;s shoes and ask, “Can I navigate this website with a keyboard? Does the message come across clearly?” Think about how to make the web a more welcoming place for everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Birgit:</strong><br />Wow, thank you so much, Anne! I&#8217;ve learned so much from you today, and I’m sure our audience has too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne:</strong><br />Thank you for having me!</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Birgit:</strong><br />You&#8217;re very welcome. And thanks to our audience for tuning into <em>The WordPress Way</em>. We hope today’s conversation has sparked new ideas and inspired you to engage more deeply with our vibrant WordPress community. Remember, DEIB stands for Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging. It’s about making real changes that foster a sense of belonging and respect for everyone. Please share this episode and join us next month as we continue to explore these important topics. Don’t forget to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing the envelope and doing WordPress the right way.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode of <strong><em>the WordPress Way</em></strong>, host <strong>Birgit</strong> and chats with guest and host <strong>Anne Mieke Bovelett</strong>, a specialist in WordPress and accessibility, as they talk about the intersection of neurodiversity and digital accessibility. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anne shares her personal journey with ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorder, discussing how these experiences drive her advocacy for inclusivity in web design and content creation. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>She also emphasizes the importance of minimalistic, functional design that caters to diverse audiences, including neurodivergent individuals. The conversation highlights the need for businesses to embrace accessibility testing to improve user experiences, especially within the context of the upcoming European Accessibility Act. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Takeaways</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>The Importance of Accessibility</strong>: Accessibility is about making digital experiences inclusive for everyone, not just people with visible disabilities. It&#8217;s important to consider all users, including those with cognitive or neurodivergent traits, such as ADHD or autism.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Web Design Should Be Functional, Not Overstimulating</strong>: Highly animated websites with sliders, parallax effects, and excessive design can be overwhelming, especially for neurodivergent users. A simple, functional design often leads to better user experiences and higher conversion rates.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Test with Real Users</strong>: To ensure your website is truly accessible, conduct user testing with diverse groups. Include people with various disabilities, neurodivergent traits, and even older users. This provides valuable insights into how accessible and user-friendly your site is.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Break Down Accessibility Responsibilities Across Teams</strong>: Accessibility should be a shared responsibility across all teams involved in creating a website—designers, developers, and content creators each have a role to play in ensuring the site is accessible.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Content Matters</strong>: Ensure content is perceivable and easy to understand. Use descriptive link text instead of generic &#8220;click here&#8221; and add meaningful alt text for images. Make content digestible for users with cognitive disabilities by breaking up large blocks of text and using visuals strategically.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Inclusive Design Benefits Everyone</strong>: Accessibility isn&#8217;t just for people with disabilities. Designing for accessibility can reduce sensory overload for all users, especially in an overstimulating digital world. It creates a calmer, more efficient online experience for everyone.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Neurodivergence and Focus</strong>: People with ADHD or similar traits often struggle with traditional methods of focus and productivity. They may hyper-focus on tasks they are interested in but may find it hard to control their focus otherwise. This impacts how they interact with websites and applications.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>The Power of Minimalism</strong>: Websites that are simple, minimalistic, and functional often outperform over-designed sites. This simplicity benefits users who are easily overwhelmed by sensory input and also tends to improve usability for all users.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Community Focus</strong>: A strong theme in the episode is the importance of community. Anne emphasizes the fulfillment that comes from building accessible, inclusive websites that not only benefit the creator but the entire community of users.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Prepare for Legislation</strong>: With increasing regulations, such as the European Accessibility Act coming into effect, businesses should prioritize accessibility now, not just to comply with laws but to better serve their customers.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Links</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/anne-mieke-bovelett/\">Host Anne Mieke Bovelett </a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://equalizedigital.com/accessibility-checker/\">Equalize Digital&#8217;s Accessibility Checker Plugin</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1202\">European accessibility act</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Chapter Titles with Timestamps</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:00 Introduction to The WordPress Way  <br />00:56 Meet Our Guest: Anne Mieke Bovelett <br />01:36 Anne&#8217;s Journey and Passion for Accessibility <br />02:23 The Impact of ADHD and Neurodiversity <br />04:30 Discovering Accessibility and Its Importance <br />06:02 Challenges and Triumphs in Accessibility <br />09:05 The Role of Community and Continuous Learning <br />12:07 Creating Accessible Digital Experiences <br />23:53 The Importance of Minimalistic and Functional Design <br />32:24 Tips for Online and In-Person Meetings <br />38:41 Final Thoughts and Takeaways</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 08 Oct 2024 07:21:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:29;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:50:\"WPTavern: Impact of WPEngine’s Ban on ACF Plugin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=174249\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:58:\"https://wptavern.com/impact-of-wpengines-ban-on-acf-plugin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:9859:\"<p>When WP Engine was blocked from accessing WordPress.org, users were left wondering what the future holds for ACF (Advanced Custom Fields) and how this ban will impact their sites moving forward.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">ACF Blocked from WordPress.org </h3>\n\n\n\n<p>On October 03, 2024, ACF (Advanced Custom Fields) <a href=\"https://x.com/wp_acf/status/1841843084700598355\">announced</a> via X that “The ACF team has been blocked from accessing WordPress dot org and are unable to release updates for the free version of ACF.”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WP Engine, the owners of the ACF plugin, were earlier <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-engine-banned-again-reports-deploying-a-solution\">banned from accessing WordPress.org</a> , which prevented the ACF team from deploying updates to the free version hosted on the platform. So the users were unable to automatically update ACF to newer versions. To help users, the ACF team&nbsp; shared a <a href=\"https://www.advancedcustomfields.com/blog/installing-and-upgrading-to-the-latest-version-of-acf/\">guide to manually update</a> to the latest version of the plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Customers of WP Engine or Flywheel, however, could still receive automatic updates for the free version. The ACF team assured users that “Recent events do not impact customers of ACF PRO. All updates of ACF PRO will continue to be served from advancedcustomfields.com and no action is required.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They also noted, “While there are no pending security updates for ACF, this alternative update mechanism ensures your sites are ready to receive new features, bug fixes, and security updates going forward.”</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Automattic’s Vulnerability Announcement</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>However, Automattic soon tweeted about a vulnerability in the plugin. The tweet was later deleted.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXfyXXq9B4xt-YDlCxDEYq8TZxXGjJdelIGNnH_OdD9I7AunXBGx5V7NOwvm9IlBO_UCh5g1GI5zctcUx52up0HZWU0uQDJg3_ztiSWymuTLzCyonop0NMFwSkezIujqNGhZW25Dzfbu1zFVY-WJyx5GA_m-?key=TInnMVVnqSVBTlHQ6XzXXQ\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p>In response, John Blackbourn, WordPress Core Security Team Lead, <a href=\"https://x.com/johnbillion/status/1842627564453454049\">tweeted</a>, “Automattic has responsibly disclosed a vulnerability in ACF but breached the @Intigriti Code of Conduct by irresponsibly announcing it publicly. I am going to work my damned hardest to ensure that the fix gets shipped to dotorg if it affects the free version of ACF.”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Automattic has responsibly disclosed a vulnerability in ACF but breached the <a href=\"https://twitter.com/intigriti?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@Intigriti</a> Code of Conduct by irresponsibly announcing it publicly. I am going to work my damned hardest to ensure that the fix gets shipped to dotorg if it affects the free version of ACF. <a href=\"https://t.co/LpMhvAIQou\">https://t.co/LpMhvAIQou</a></p>&mdash; John Blackbourn (@johnbillion) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/johnbillion/status/1842627564453454049?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 5, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Matt Mullenweg’s Comments on ACF</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Previously, Matt Mullenweg had raised the idea of integrating ACF Pro into WordPress core in WordPress <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW/p1727501240087269\">Slack</a> channel .&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXecMZAt0EUktcT_ypcJ-2Wz4ynJ6g0_urqDU82u1f5gpgwCMd03cpJAEdsq3r9du1EU4wPImuOwcCcxQctKsFgGqs-ctcSEA61pZI7wq5yD540D-6tZ3Ti7uiY0piKrObnXCYdUoWl-IwRAcXC8BY8GwK7Y?key=TInnMVVnqSVBTlHQ6XzXXQ\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p>On October 05, Matt Mullenweg <a href=\"https://x.com/photomatt/status/1842500184825090060\">tweeted</a>: “What are the best alternatives to Advanced Custom Fields @wp_acf for people who want to switch away? Is there an easy way to migrate? I suspect there are going to be millions of sites moving away from it in the coming weeks.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, most of the replies he received were favouring the plugin. </p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">ACF is literally the reason why so many people choose to build with WordPress.<br /><br />Does he really think people will want to switch away and spend tons of hours rebuilding everything?<br /><br />Doesn’t make sense, and that’s likely never going to happen.<br /><br />We use ACF on almost every website we… <a href=\"https://t.co/KNUlbUHAse\">https://t.co/KNUlbUHAse</a></p>&mdash; Corentin (@corxntyn) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corxntyn/status/1842596017725673677?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 5, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">ACF is what made WordPress actually useful as a CMS well over a decade ago, and it\'s block features are what continue to make it useful in a Block Editor world that is impractical to approach natively. There is nothing comparable. <a href=\"https://t.co/1rEHtEEOcn\">https://t.co/1rEHtEEOcn</a></p>&mdash; Galen Gidman (@galengidman) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/galengidman/status/1842580286200283418?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 5, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Dear Matt,<br />I tell you in roman slang:<br />\"Non famo cazzate, su!\"<br /><br />There\'s NO ALTERNATIVE!<br /><br />Keep on fighting against WPEngine. Destroy it if you want/can.<br />Many don\'t give a fuck about it.<br /><br />But ACF is something any WP dev out there has been using for years. We love it. Wee need it. <a href=\"https://t.co/GlU5gcWUIV\">https://t.co/GlU5gcWUIV</a></p>&mdash; Mauro Bono (@UpTheIrons1978) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/UpTheIrons1978/status/1842907760431669666?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 6, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Core ignores agency features for the last 5 years of block development. Asks for alternatives to ACF. Delusional.</p>&mdash; philhoyt (@philhoyt) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/philhoyt/status/1842729361079722076?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 6, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Meanwhile, Ghost, another open-source CMS jumped into the fray <a href=\"https://x.com/Ghost/status/1843065099969536409\">asking</a> “so should we add custom fields?”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">ACF 6.3.8 released</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The ACF team <a href=\"https://x.com/wp_acf/status/1843329216009400818\">shared</a> that they have released <a href=\"https://www.advancedcustomfields.com/blog/acf-6-3-8-security-release/\">ACF 6.3.8</a>, a routine security release. &#8220;WP Engine remains blocked from accessing our plugins on the .org plugin repository and therefore this update has been shipped to WP Engine’s repository and to the ACF website.&#8221;, they said.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>This latest release contains a security fix for Post Type and Taxonomy metabox callbacks. The vulnerability addresses the unlikely scenario where one user with ACF admin permissions attacks a different admin user with permissions to create or modify posts, or in a Multisite configuration where a single site admin attempts to exploit a super admin to modify or add a new post.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Iain Poulson, the Product Manager for Advanced Custom Fields</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>They also shared that: &#8220;Once manually updated to 6.3.8, updates will appear in the admin dashboard as normal going forward. No more manual zip updates will be required.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"500\" height=\"356\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-1-500x356.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-174280\" />\n\n\n\n<p>The team also shared that &#8220;We made a copy of the update available to the WordPress.org Security team, who have posted it to the plugin repository.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<img width=\"500\" height=\"280\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-2-500x280.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-174295\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Other Updates</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>In related news, WP Tavern’s ex-author Sarah Gooding published <a href=\"https://sarahgooding.dev/2024/10/06/21-years-of-wordpress/\">21 Years of WordPress</a>. “I don’t fully agree with how Matt has handled this matter, but I will not support any governance model that doesn’t have his leadership at the forefront. WordPress is his life’s work and his legacy. No design-by-committee model is going to give you the same consistent, decisive, nonstop forward momentum that we have experienced with WordPress thus far. After 21 years of delivering on this, I believe Matt is uniquely qualified to steer the project forward. His leadership has built something truly extraordinary.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Kaelon <a href=\"https://x.com/Kaelon/status/1843013559980003682\">tweeted</a> about how “WordPress is entering its &#8220;end-stage founder&#8221; period.” His advice for WP and Matt includes, &#8220;Do not turn on your people.&#8221;, &#8220;Step the Founder back.&#8221; and &#8220;Reinvent.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The WP Minute&#8217;s Eric Karkovack published <a href=\"https://thewpminute.com/private-equity-and-the-soul-of-wordpress/\">Private Equity and the Soul of WordPress</a>. He says &#8220;Perhaps having a few private equity-owned WordPress products isn’t a big deal&#8230;The real threat is an ecosystem controlled by a few big firms&#8230;That’s only half the potential catastrophe, though. Companies that are in it for the short-term may not be compelled to give back to WordPress core.&#8221;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 08 Oct 2024 02:33:56 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:30;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:40:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.7 Beta 2\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17887\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/wordpress-6-7-beta-2/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8179:\"<p id=\"block-3cf2f536-f167-464f-a4ba-07f45105e476\">WordPress 6.7 Beta 2 is now ready for testing!</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-b65e3bf0-0494-4039-a701-f21e505600ad\"><strong>This beta version of the WordPress software is under development</strong>. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, it is recommended you evaluate Beta 2 on a test server and site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-e904322b-c488-4166-8312-0b769067b943\">You can test WordPress 6.7 Beta 2 in four ways:</p>\n\n\n\n<table class=\"has-fixed-layout\"><tbody><tr><th>Plugin</th><td>Install and activate the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/\">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin on a WordPress install. (Select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream).</td></tr><tr><th>Direct Download</th><td>Download the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.7-beta2.zip\">Beta 2 version (zip)</a> and install it on a WordPress website.</td></tr><tr><th>Command Line</th><td>Use the following <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/\">WP-CLI</a> command:<br /><code>wp core update --version=6.7-beta2</code></td></tr><tr><th>WordPress Playground</th><td>Use the <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/#%7B%20%22preferredVersions%22:%20%7B%20%22php%22:%20%228.0%22,%20%22wp%22:%20%22https://playground.wordpress.net/plugin-proxy.php?build-ref=a49bf5596f7258375345826dc136bfc589372e37%22%20%7D,%20%22features%22:%20%7B%20%22networking%22:%20true%20%7D,%20%22steps%22:%20%5B%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22login%22,%20%22username%22:%20%22admin%22,%20%22password%22:%20%22password%22%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wpaccessibility/a11y-theme-unit-test/master/a11y-theme-unit-test-data.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WordPress/theme-test-data/master/themeunittestdata.wordpress.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22query-monitor%22%20%7D,%20%22options%22:%20%7B%20%22activate%22:%20false%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22create-block-theme%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22debug-bar%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22health-check%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22test-reports%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22user-switching%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D%20%5D%20%7D\">6.7 Beta 2 WordPress Playground instance</a> to test the software directly in your browser without the need for a separate site or setup.&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-93b754f0-e211-47b7-ac89-349d85c2f02f\">The current target date for the final release of WordPress 6.7 is <strong>November 12, 2024</strong>. Get an overview of the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/\">6.7 release cycle</a>, and check the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress Core blog</a> for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-7/\">6.7-related posts</a> in the coming weeks for more information.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-7b5d791d-225a-4623-83ee-19a586c7094b\"><strong>Catch up on what&#8217;s new in WordPress 6.7</strong>: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/wordpress-6-7-beta-1/\">Read the Beta 1 announcement</a> for details and highlights.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-f1abd396-a019-4c9a-bcb8-9ac381a61ca1\">How to test this release</h2>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-92dfcab6-d2a8-4753-84ce-8ef7b6dd1e90\">Your help testing the WordPress 6.7 Beta 2 version is key to ensuring everything in the release is the best it can be. While testing the upgrade process is essential, trying out new features is equally important. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/10/01/help-test-wordpress-6-7/\">This detailed guide</a> will walk you through testing features in WordPress 6.7.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-6519fad7-59ea-45f1-9b8f-ca14c09c865d\">If you encounter an issue, please report it to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">Alpha/Beta area</a> of the support forums or directly to <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\">WordPress Trac</a> if you are comfortable writing a reproducible bug report. You can also check your issue against a list of <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major\">known bugs</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-4bd66b13-6784-4a4f-bb7a-b4dab8e5fc12\">Curious about testing releases in general? Follow along with the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/\">testing initiatives in Make Core</a> and join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/\">#core-test channel</a> on <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/\">Making WordPress Slack</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-67b6a6c7-a95e-4b27-8946-a66d15105cb7\">Vulnerability bounty doubles during Beta/RC</h2>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-16175da3-84c9-45d0-b735-08a9d4453a14\">Between Beta 1, released on October 1, 2024, and the final Release Candidate (RC) scheduled for November 5, 2024, the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/security/2024/02/12/welcoming-2024-with-wordpress-6-5-beta-1/\">monetary reward for reporting new, unreleased security vulnerabilities</a> is doubled. Please follow responsible disclosure practices as detailed in the project’s security practices and policies outlined on the <a href=\"https://hackerone.com/wordpress\">HackerOne page</a> and in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/security/\">security white paper</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-14306771-b240-4e15-948f-7504757bbb61\">Beta 2 updates and highlights</h2>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-93917d31-4478-45b5-b71c-1c8a1f49cc65\">WordPress 6.7 Beta 2 contains more than 18 Editor updates and fixes since the Beta 1 release, including <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&changetime=02%2F14%2F2024..02%2F19%2F2024&milestone=6.5&col=id&col=milestone&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&order=id\">28 tickets for WordPress core</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-ffdc1220-c2f5-4c23-982b-60c366c629d1\">Each beta cycle focuses on bug fixes; more are on the way with your help through testing. You can browse the technical details for all issues addressed since Beta 1 using these links:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul id=\"block-3fcf78c7-bebc-42e1-96f6-8b605ea23aae\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/commits/wp/6.7?since=2024-10-02&until=2024-10-07\">GitHub commits for 6.7</a> since October 2, 2024</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&changetime=10%2F02%2F2024..10%2F07%2F2024&milestone=6.7&col=id&col=milestone&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&order=id\">Closed Trac tickets</a> since October 2, 2024</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"block-c414b25e-802f-4f29-a31c-9e13394a4947\">A Beta 2 haiku</h2>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-a0f155a2-19b3-4645-a516-c7ae56541e5f\">Beta 2 arrives,<br />October’s code settles in,<br />Change rustles like leaves.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"block-014ab749-322b-44bd-bf4f-bf5817d90bfd\"><em>Props to <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffpaul/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>jeffpaul</a></em> for proofreading and review.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 08 Oct 2024 00:44:58 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"David Baumwald\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"Matt: Rhino Dehorning\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=127802\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:38:\"https://ma.tt/2024/10/rhino-dehorning/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3834:\"<p>Yesterday in the African bush <a href=\"https://www.threads.net/@photomatt/post/DA0WWnTsESD\">was great</a>, I saw giraffes, zebras, warthogs, leopard turtles, elephants. Today wasn&#8217;t great: I witnessed a rhino shot with a tranquilizer from a helicopter, then it was held down, had its horns cut off, and then shaved down. I have some photos and videos from the event but I&#8217;m not going to share them, because I think it&#8217;s really tragic. While this was happening I put my hand on the rhino&#8217;s belly to try to send it love, because I can&#8217;t imagine how confusing and terrifying the experience was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s back up: Why does anyone care about rhino horns? First, you have to start with how dangerous false ideas and memes can be. Rhino horns are 92-95% keratin, just like your fingernails, the rest is basic stuff like melanin, calcium salts, magnesium, sulfur, nitrogen, amino acids, and phosphorus. There is nothing special or magic about a rhino horn that you couldn&#8217;t easily obtain many other ways.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However there is a dangerous infovirus going back thousands of years that rhino horns can cure various ailments, from cancer to fevers, and have aphrodisiac properties. To quote <a href=\"https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-hard-truth-about-the-rhino-horn-aphrodisiac-market/\">Scientific American</a>:</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Some purchase horn chunks or powder for traditional medicinal purposes, to ingest or to give others as an impressive gift. Wealthy buyers bid for antique rhino horn carvings  such as cups or figurines to display or as investments. A modern market for rhino horn necklaces, bracelets and beads has also sprung up. [&#8230;]</p>\n\n\n\n<p>On the bright side, traditional Chinese medicine experts have increasingly joined the fight to reduce the demand for rhino horn. When China officially banned the international trade in 1993, it followed up by removing rhino horn as a medical ingredient in traditional Chinese medicine&#8217;s pharmacopeia  and curriculum. [&#8230;]</p>\n\n\n\n<p>“Traditional Chinese medicine has a history of 3,000 years and we have been educating the public for less than 30 years,” Huang notes. “Therefore this is an ongoing education.”</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Regardless of the reasons, there is a price for rhino horns. I was told the larger front horn would get about $300,000 on the black market, and rhinos have been poached to near-extinction. Combine that with <a href=\"https://tradingeconomics.com/south-africa/unemployment-rate\">South Africa&#8217;s 33% unemployment rate</a>, some people turn to crime or poaching to make money. It&#8217;s cheaper and faster to kill the rhino and take its horn than tranquilize it as the game reserve did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don&#8217;t want to criticize the people at the game reserve. They clearly cared for the animal quite deeply, and while it was tranquilized, they provided other veterinary help for it, like removing ticks. They also put a tracker on its foot. They say they lock the horns in a vault&#8230; why? Burn it, toss it. <a href=\"https://www.savetherhino.org/thorny-issues/de-horning/\">The thinking is that reserves that are known for de-horning will attract fewer poachers</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is obviously a middle solution, and I hope ten years from now we&#8217;ll look back at this as a point in time we learned from. On the demand side, it seems like aggressive education campaigns could help decrease demand for keratin from rhinos. On the anti-poacher side, I think drones will be able to secure perimeters far more securely than fences currently do. It would be fascinating for an economist like <a href=\"https://marginalrevolution.com/\">Tyler Cowen</a> to dive into these issues.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 07 Oct 2024 20:36:36 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42:\"WordPress.org blog: WPGraphQL is Canonical\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17891\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:45:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/wpgraphql/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:249:\"<p>Happy to announce that WP GraphQL is becoming canonical on WordPress.org. I could say more, <a href=\"https://www.wpgraphql.com/2024/10/07/wpgraphql-becomes-a-canonical-plugin-my-move-to-automattic\">but I&#8217;ll let Jason tell his story</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 07 Oct 2024 18:44:09 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Matt Mullenweg\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"Do The Woo Community: Do the Woo at WordCampUS 2024\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=85923\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/do-the-woo-at-wordcampus-2024/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5586:\"<p>Getting around to doing a recap of WordCampUS. Over on my personal site <a href=\"https://bobwp.com\">bobwp.com</a> I shared more about my own day to day stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And here on Do the Woo, I gave you a look at our <a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/the-do-the-woo-lunch/\">official Do the Woo Lunch</a> during Showcase Day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I thought I would do a recap from the perspective of Do the Woo and some of the things we did, or didn&#8217;t do. The fact is I always have written a recap of WordCamps I attend, and I just wanted to pull out so much of the positive I experienced on behalf of Do the Woo.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Conversations</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In line with Do Woo, I had several conversations. In fact, a lot of short ones and long ones. But I did specifically schedule a couple of slots with an old and new friend via their calendars. My first one was with <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesserfriedman/\">Jesse Friedman</a> from <a href=\"https://jetpack.com/\">Jetpack</a> and <a href=\"https://wp.cloud/\">WP Cloud</a>. We took the time to catch up on projects we were both doing. In fact Jesse is shared about his new podcast <em><a href=\"https://impressive.host/\">Impressive Hosting</a></em>, which you should check out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The other conversation was with Aaron Edwards from <a href=\"https://docsbot.ai/\">DocBots AI</a>. It was not only great getting to know Aaron better, but I was really impressed with his product. He even had it hooked up via our site and showed me some it in action. Good stuff!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In fact I got a bonus from him. <a href=\"https://bobwp.com/2024/10/04/the-many-faces-of-ai-bobwp/\">Some AI images that you can see over on my personal blog</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And as I said, so many, many other great conversations</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Podcasting at WCUS</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This one was no different than others. Scheduled times often go awry. We were the victim of confusion around a time slot. The second one, with a couple of our hosts and a sponsor, was slotted in for the last day, early afternoon. Not a great time as all of our energies were low and we just didn&#8217;t have it in us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now on the other hand, spontaneous recordings always work out much better. But, again, that just didn&#8217;t happen. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>There is one that I will be putting out in a bit. Since the slogan for Portland is <em>Keep Portland Weird</em> I decided to ask some attendees a weird WordCamp question. Nothing edgy or offensive. Just weird. That turned out to be a lot of fun and you can look forward to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">And now for something completely different</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, one more thing that will be coming to the blog, though it may take time</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At the Woo booth they were giving out disposable cameras. It was really fun to use one of them that I haven&#8217;t used in years and years. Advancing your film manually and moving backwards or forwards without a zoom. It was great!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now for those who attended, you will know that there was a whole area clustered with Automattic properties. Woo, WP VIP, Jetpack, WordPress.com, Gravatar, etc. Something I named Mattic Town.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As a result I took several pictures of various people and things in the booths with my disposable camera. And from that I am going to use them in a post about my visit to Mattic Town. Slanted towards visiting a &#8220;real town&#8221;. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right now, having brought the camera back to Portugal, I am researching a local place that will developer the film. So this might be down the road.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">To sum it up</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, those are some of the highlights specific to Do the Woo. Between my personal post and this post, it was a busy time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And if you are curious, here are all of our hosts that attended WordCampUS 2024.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/adam-weeks/\">Adam Weeks<br /></a><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/brad-williams/\">Brad Williams</a><br /><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/carl-alexander/\">Carl Alexander<br /></a><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/courtney-robertson/\">Courtney Robertson</a><br /><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/emma-young/\">Emma Young</a><br /><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/jonathan-wold/\">Jonathan Wold</a><br /><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/katie-keith/\">Katie Keith</a><br /><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/marcus-burnette/\">Marcus Burnette</a><br /><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/robbie-adair/\">Robbie Adair</a><br /><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/robert-jacobi/\">Robert Jacobi<br /></a><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/tammie-lister/\">Tammie Lister</a><br /><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/tom-willmot/\">Tom Willmot</a><br /><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/zach-stepek/\">Zach Stepek</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>And lastly, our sponsors who also sponsored WCUS.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.avalara.com/us/en/index.html\">Avalara</a><br /><a href=\"https://www.godaddy.com/\">GoDaddy</a><br /><a href=\"https://www.hostinger.com/\">Hostinger</a><br /><a href=\"https://kinsta.com/?utm_source=dothewoo&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=website\">Kinsta</a><br /><a href=\"https://www.omnisend.com/\">Omnisend<br /></a><a href=\"https://www.weglot.com/\">Weglot</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>So what&#8217;s up next? <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/\">WCAsia 2025</a> in Manila. We are really looking forward to this one as both a media sponsor and a sponsor. And as we did earlier this year, our booth will be a hub for community conversation and connections. Hope to see you there!</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 07 Oct 2024 13:19:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:66:\"WPTavern: Thank You, Josepha: WordPress Executive Director Resigns\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=163323\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:75:\"https://wptavern.com/thank-you-josepha-wordpress-executive-director-resigns\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:6654:\"<p>Josepha Haden Chomphosy has stepped down from Automattic, where she served as the Executive Director of the WordPress project. She was also leading Automattic&#8217;s open-source division, championing the efforts of developers, designers, community builders, and WordPress advocates. She has now updated her title in the WordPress Slack to &#8220;Community Steward.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like Josepha, <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/159-employees-leave-automattic-after-accepting-the-alignment-offer\">159 employees left Automattic</a> after accepting the Alignment Offer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Rumors of her resignation first surfaced on X, to which she <a href=\"https://x.com/JosephaHaden/status/1841793834931397070\">responded</a>: &#8220;Ok, this is not how I expected that news to come to y’all. I apologize that this is the first many of you heard of it. Please don’t speculate about anything.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">It\'s been a beautiful and transformative nine years, WordPress. I\'m never at a loss for words, but let the main thing you hear be \"Thank you\"! <a href=\"https://t.co/lHTPNqwvkS\">https://t.co/lHTPNqwvkS</a></p>&mdash; Josepha’s AFK Today (@JosephaHaden) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/JosephaHaden/status/1842321304583627218?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 4, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>In a farewell post titled <a href=\"https://josepha.blog/2024/10/04/thank-you-wordpress/\">Thank you, WordPress</a>, she expressed continued optimism for the future of the open-source project: “There’s still more to do in our shared quest to secure a self-sustaining future of the open source project that we all love, and my belief in our global community of contributors remains unchanged. I have spent nine years working shoulder to shoulder with you, and I didn’t want to leave without saying goodbye.”</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>I still believe that open source is an idea that can transform generations. I believe in the power of a good-hearted group of people. I believe in the importance of strong opinions, loosely held. And I believe the world will always need the more equitable opportunities that well-maintained open source can provide: access to knowledge and learning, easy-to-join peer and business networks, the amplification of unheard voices, and a chance to tap into economic opportunity for those who weren’t born into it.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>She continued:<strong> “While my next steps aren’t yet clear, I hope to never be too far from this community that taught me so much.”</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Josepha has been uncharacteristically silent since the onset of the Automattic-WP Engine controversy aside from a brief comment on Slack. Since joining WordPress in 2019, she was always actively involved in community discussions or <a href=\"https://wp-content.co/bay-lights/\">controversies</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXejnkbeXF_axw_ioYYMuyFvIVZvox8rUTa5P3BcJSeGx_n3ACeJ3kNIwzwZx5-SfXvZmgR2kOlarUKV5UzFe9m1mb8cL5GS676AoX2iMjJrGcUeaO4dEcTXQ3DrdepkjXvlN60gDS4TE3eNeCMOBiC7xj-1?key=-gzwbuSTOmslNC3WjniK0g\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Community Response</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Josepha always had a special place in the community’s heart and it was reflected in the messages that poured in following her announcement.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Josepha, we met when you became the <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#WordPress</a> Training Team Rep. Watching you find your footing to being our executive director for so many years has had a profound impact on me. It has been an honor to work alongside you. Thank you. <a href=\"https://t.co/Ko3aDxlhak\">https://t.co/Ko3aDxlhak</a></p>&mdash; @courtneyr_dev <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f33b.png\" alt=\"🌻\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> (@courtneyr_dev) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/courtneyr_dev/status/1842327905193324851?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 4, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Josepha\'s leadership is one of the reasons I am an active contributor to WordPress. I am exceptionally pleased to have had the opportunity to work with her over the years. Good luck with whatever comes next, Josepha. <a href=\"https://t.co/5AyqhRNMOo\">https://t.co/5AyqhRNMOo</a></p>&mdash; Peter Wilson <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f3f3-fe0f-200d-1f308.png\" alt=\"🏳️‍🌈\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> (@pwcc) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/pwcc/status/1842328528735609120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 4, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Josepha you are a great leader. You have inspired so many of us. <br /><br />Thank you for everything you had done for the community. It was great interacting with you on multiple occasions.<br /><br />Hoping to cross paths with you again in the future. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1faf6.png\" alt=\"🫶\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>&mdash; Meher Bala | WP Mumbai &amp; WC Asia Organiser (@meherbala) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/meherbala/status/1842645793259602258?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 5, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Thank you, Josepha!<br /><br />It’s been an absolute pleasure interacting with you over the years and I do hope you stay close to the project. <br /><br />Either way, best of luck with whatever lies ahead.</p>&mdash; Remkus de Vries (@remkusdevries) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/remkusdevries/status/1842460273728225477?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 5, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">I appreciate your ability to bring people together, to create safe and welcoming spaces, and to thoughtfully listen to and hear a wide variety of voices. I knew from the first time I met you that you were special. Thank you for all you\'ve done for the community over the years…</p>&mdash; Brandon Dove (@brandondove) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/brandondove/status/1842342417191875005?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 4, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Thank you, Josepha, for all you&#8217;ve done for WordPress. We wish you the best in your future endeavors!</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sun, 06 Oct 2024 16:41:50 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"WPTavern: New Social Web Foundation Launched with Automattic’s Support  \";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=166856\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://wptavern.com/new-social-web-foundation-launched-with-automattics-support\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4218:\"<p>The Social Web Foundation was officially <a href=\"https://socialwebfoundation.org/2024/09/24/launch/\">launched</a> on September 24, 2024, with a mission to foster a &#8220;growing, healthy, financially viable, and multi-polar Fediverse.&#8221; This non-profit organization is <a href=\"https://socialwebfoundation.org/team/\">spearheaded by</a> Evan Prodromou (Research Director), Mallory Knodel (Executive Director), and Tom Coates (Product Director) and is dedicated to uniting social networks through the open standard protocol, ActivityPub.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Fediverse is a collection of interconnected, decentralized social media platforms that communicate using open protocols, with <a href=\"https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/\">ActivityPub</a>—developed by the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)—as the primary standard. “Until now, no major organization has taken on advocacy for ActivityPub as its central goal. Many people have ideas about what the Fediverse needs to be bigger, safer, and easier to use. But the solutions they propose fall between the cracks of anyone implementer or service. We want the SWF to be the entity that takes on those jobs.”, <a href=\"https://write.as/evanp/announcing-the-social-web-foundation\">said Evan Prodromou</a>, often referred to as “The Father of the Fediverse.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"http://plasticbag.org/archives/2024/09/on-the-social-web-foundation/\">Tom Coates</a> emphasized the foundation&#8217;s straightforward goal: “Fundamentally, its goal is pretty simple – it’s there to help the Fediverse grow in a sustainable and healthy way that benefits everyone.”</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>The Social Web Foundation is our best chance to establish the conditions in which the new social media operates with zero harm.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8211; Mallory Knodel</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>The foundation aims to address challenges within the ActivityPub ecosystem and support its growth, especially in the commercial sector. Key <a href=\"https://socialwebfoundation.org/projects/\">areas of focus</a> include:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>People: Educating the public about the Fediverse and its benefits.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Policy: Clarifying policy frameworks for international and federated networks.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Protocol: Developing and maintaining open standards.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Plumbing: Building the necessary infrastructure</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Thirteen prominent companies, including Automattic, Mastodon, Meta, Ghost, and Medium, are backing the foundation.</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXf8GjBqJZhiDMXBxukXJ9h34UKYKsVzt6UzrtrPPLBPFwPe1ziQzzIw2YJfOZo0-U5i4y0P69HA8wqca_WqmmKRFFvz9GoFh1IvAUXMmKgiq1P7sThjprXu3fcHGX8mgz93_L8CYqT2bjTLNiGzXlUOD0U4?key=Znh0DVRkNQsoeNp-57L7wg\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Automattic &amp; Fediverse</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Automattic&#8217;s involvement with the Social Web Foundation comes as no surprise, given its long-standing contributions to the Fediverse. Back in 2021, Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg expressed interest in bringing <a href=\"https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/21/tumblr-to-add-support-for-activitypub-the-social-protocol-powering-mastodon-and-other-apps/\">ActivityPub support to Tumblr</a>. In 2023, Automattic acquired the <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/automattic-acquires-activitypub-plugin-for-wordpress\">ActivityPub plugin for WordPress</a> from German developer Matthias Pfefferle and made the ActivityPub feature <a href=\"https://wordpress.com/blog/2023/10/11/activitypub/\">available</a> across all WordPress.com plans.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>“Automattic is excited about the launch of the Social Web Foundation and its mission. We’re eager to collaborate with the Foundation to expand platform diversity and enhance the support for various content types—especially long-form content—within the Fediverse, fostering greater interoperability across the ecosystem.”, said Matthias Pfefferle, Open Web Lead at Automattic.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>To know more about Automattic and Fediverse, check the YouTube series, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6nDc7ACvovJMt8MEiebpsXnlBuKp158j\">The Fediverse Files</a>.&nbsp;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 05 Oct 2024 18:14:21 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"WPTavern: 159 Employees Leave Automattic After Accepting the Alignment Offer\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=166873\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:87:\"https://wptavern.com/159-employees-leave-automattic-after-accepting-the-alignment-offer\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5535:\"<p>While the controversy between Automattic and WP Engine was unfolding, social media discussions surged about whether Automattic employees not agreeing with Matt were offered an ultimatum to quit and exit with a generous payout.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/kellie/status/1841210258422972536\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/jeffr0/status/1841585100665872569\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>&nbsp;In response, Matt Mullenweg addressed the situation in a blog post titled <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2024/10/alignment/\">Automattic Alignment</a>. He has clarified that: &#8220;It became clear a good chunk of my Automattic colleagues disagreed with me and our actions. So we decided to design the most generous buy-out package possible, we called it an Alignment Offer: <strong>if you resigned before 20:00 UTC on Thursday, October 3, 2024, you would receive $30,000 or six months of salary, whichever is higher. </strong>But you’d lose access to Automattic that evening, and you wouldn’t be eligible to boomerang (what we call re-hires). HR added some extra details to sweeten the deal; we wanted to make it as enticing as possible.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Matt revealed that 159 employees, representing 8.4% of the workforce, accepted the offer. Of these,<strong> 79.2% were part of Automattic’s Ecosystem businesses</strong>, while 18.2% came from Cosmos, working on apps like Pocket Casts, Day One, Tumblr, and Cloudup.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>“It was an emotional roller coaster of a week. The day you hire someone you aren’t expecting them to resign or be fired, you’re hoping for a long and mutually beneficial relationship. Every resignation stings a bit.”, Matt added.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://automattic.com/2024/10/04/looking-ahead/\">Automattic</a> referred to this move as “<strong>a strategic realignment to better pursue our core values and operational goals.</strong>”&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>We remain deeply grateful to all our employees, past and present. For those who have chosen new paths, we sincerely wish them the best, and thank them for helping make Automattic what it is today. We emerge from this chapter with a renewed vigor and clarity in our mission.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8211;  Automattic&nbsp;</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">159 People Accepted the Offer&nbsp;</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>In a surprising turn, the names of people leaving Automattic include Josepha Haden Chomphosy, the Executive Director of the WordPress project. “While my next steps aren’t yet clear, I hope to never be too far from this community that taught me so much.”, <a href=\"https://josepha.blog/2024/10/04/thank-you-wordpress/\">she said</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Other notable departures include <a href=\"https://naoko.blog/2024/10/04/leaving-automattic/\">Naoko Takano</a> (Open Source Project Manager), <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/danwalmsley/\">Daniel Walmsley</a> (AI Engineer and Architect), <a href=\"https://x.com/jeffikus/status/1842227784350859484\">Jeffrey Pearce</a> (Team Lead) and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rmartinezduque/\">Reyes Martínez</a> (Communications Wrangler &amp; <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2024/03/20/making-a-wordpress-media-corps/\">WordPress Media Corps</a> lead). Daniel Bachhuber (head of WordPress.com) also left but posted this in <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7247936060008136704/\">LinkedIn</a>: “I believe in Matt. Leaving Automattic for other reasons. It&#8217;s a bummer, and I will miss everyone there.”</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/danwalmsley/status/1841882447073706317\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/jeffikus/status/1842227784350859484\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">91.6% of Automatticians are Staying</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Meanwhile, 91.6% of Automattic employees chose to stay, with many expressing support for Matt’s decisions on X.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/zeldman/status/1842201921433608640\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/NerdwithCoffee/status/1842351786134229318\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/pootlepress/status/1842051172183490811\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/justintadlock/status/1842197703272300968\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Community Response</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>As usual, the community remains divided, with some praising the offer&#8217;s generosity while others are worried.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/awilkinson/status/1842227042256920691\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/FloWendelborn/status/1842072441280983440\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/foolstechdev/status/1842220667111932279\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps://twitter.com/mnowak_eth/status/1842131124165775653\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>As mentioned above, 79.2% of the people who left Automattic were working on Ecosystem projects. The Marketing Team again got the short end of the stick with <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2024/03/20/making-a-wordpress-media-corps/\">WordPress Media Corps</a>’s future in doubt due to Reyes Martínez’s resignation. The coming days will provide more clarity on the effects this development has on WordPress.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 05 Oct 2024 17:45:40 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"Matt: CNBC on WP Engine\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=127659\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:40:\"https://ma.tt/2024/10/cnbc-on-wp-engine/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:342:\"<p>Ari Levy at CNBC has a great article covering the battle between WordPress and Silver Lake / WP Engine: <a href=\"https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/05/wordpress-ceo-matt-mullenweg-goes-nuclear-on-silver-lake-wp-engine-.html\">Why WordPress [co-]founder Matt Mullenweg has gone ‘nuclear’ against tech investing giant Silver Lake</a>.<br /></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 05 Oct 2024 13:03:13 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26:\"Matt: Automattic Alignment\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=127517\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://ma.tt/2024/10/alignment/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2301:\"<p>Winston Churchill said, &#8220;Never let a good crisis go to waste.&#8221; Since I last blogged here, <a href=\"https://automattic.com/2024/10/03/meritless/\">WP Engine filed a meritless lawsuit and Automattic responded</a>, and there&#8217;s been a hurricane of public activity and press. Inside of <a href=\"https://automattic.com/\">Automattic</a>, there&#8217;s been a parallel debate and process.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Silver Lake and WP Engine&#8217;s attacks on me and Automattic, while spurious, have been effective. It became clear a good chunk of my Automattic colleagues disagreed with me and our actions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we decided to design the most generous buy-out package possible, we called it an Alignment Offer: if you resigned before 20:00&nbsp;UTC&nbsp;on Thursday, October 3, 2024, you would receive <strong>$30,000 or six months of salary, whichever is higher</strong>. But you&#8217;d lose access to Automattic that evening, and you wouldn&#8217;t be eligible to boomerang (what we call re-hires). HR added some extra details to sweeten the deal; we wanted to make it as enticing as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;ve been asking people to vote with their wallet a lot recently, and this is another example!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>159 people took the offer, 8.4% of the company, the other 91.6% gave up $126M of potential severance to stay! 63.5% were male. 53% were in the US. By division it impacted our Ecosystem / WordPress areas the most: 79.2% of the people who took it were in our Ecosystem businesses, compared to 18.2% from Cosmos (our apps like <a href=\"https://pocketcasts.com/\">Pocket Casts</a>, <a href=\"https://dayoneapp.com/\">Day One</a>, <a href=\"https://tumblr.com/\">Tumblr</a>, <a href=\"https://cloudup.com/\">Cloudup</a>). 18 people made over 200k/yr! 1 person started two days before the deadline. 4 people took it then changed their minds.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It was an emotional roller coaster of a week. The day you hire someone you aren&#8217;t expecting them to resign or be fired, you&#8217;re hoping for a long and mutually beneficial relationship. Every resignation stings a bit. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>However now, I feel much lighter. I&#8217;m grateful and thankful for all the people who took the offer, and even more excited to work with those who turned down $126M to stay. As the kids say, LFG!</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 04 Oct 2024 03:28:02 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"WPTavern: WordPress Enforces Plugin Check and 2FA for New Plugin Submissions\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=163317\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:87:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-enforces-plugin-check-and-2fa-for-new-plugin-submissions\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3487:\"<p>Security Review Lead Chris Christoff has announced <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/10/01/plugin-check-and-2fa-now-mandatory-for-new-plugin-submissions/\">two new changes</a> for the WordPress Plugin Directory, effective from October 1, 2024. These changes aim to enhance plugin directory security and promote best practices among plugin developers.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Mandatory Two-Factor Authentication</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>As of October 1, 2024, all plugin owners and committers must enable Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) to submit new plugins to the WordPress Plugin Directory. This change was <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-org-introduces-new-security-measures-for-plugin-and-theme-authors\">announced</a> by Automattic-sponsored developer Dion Hulse last month.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Plugin owners are encouraged to enable 2FA, review committers’ access levels, and use additional security features like the SVN password option and Release Confirmation. Detailed guides on <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta/handbook/tutorials-guides/configuring-two-factor-authentication/\">Configuring Two-Factor Authentication</a> and <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/06/26/keeping-your-plugin-committer-accounts-secure/\">Keeping Your Plugin Committer Accounts Secure</a> are also available.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Plugin Check Tool</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>From now on, any new plugin submitted to the Plugin Directory will first go through a pre-submission check using the Plugin Check tool. If any errors are found, the submission will be blocked until they are fixed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This new step aims to reduce the review queue by enabling plugin authors to catch common issues before submitting their plugins for manual review. Plugin Check helps by identifying frequent issues, such as mismatched versions between the plugin header and the readme.txt file, incorrect text domains, and erroneous &#8220;Tested To&#8221; values in the readme. Although Plugin Check adds a layer of automation,<strong> it will not replace the manual review of plugins</strong>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>David Perez from the Plugin Review Team <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/09/17/introducing-plugin-check-pcp/\">recommended making Plugin Check</a> a part of the development workflow as “In addition to things relevant for the review process, the tool flags violations or concerns around plugin development best practices, from basic requirements like correct usage of internationalization functions to accessibility, performance, and security best practices. It does so using both static checks using PHP_CodeSniffer and dynamic checks, where it actually activates your plugin to test it “live”.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Plugins Team is working to expand Plugin Check’s coverage to existing plugins. A roadmap detailing this broader application will be released in the coming months. Contributors can help improve the tool via its <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/plugin-check\">GitHub Repo</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The WordPress community has responded positively to these updates. Josepha Haden Chomphosy <a href=\"https://x.com/JosephaHaden/status/1841810132495143307\">tweeted</a> “This was years in the making and is a huge deal. Congratulations (and big thanks) to everyone who contributed!”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These two measures are expected to help the WordPress Plugin Team improve the security of the platform while reducing the backlog of plugins awaiting approval.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 03 Oct 2024 20:01:51 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:70:\"WPTavern: Automattic Publishes WP Engine Term Sheet Amidst Controversy\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=163230\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81:\"https://wptavern.com/automattic-publishes-wp-engine-term-sheet-amidst-controversy\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5085:\"<p>As the Automattic-WP Engine <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wp-engine-banned-from-using-wordpress-org-resources\">controversy</a> continues, Automattic published the term sheet delivered to WP Engine on September 20, 2024. “In the interest of transparency, we’ve published the term sheet we offered to @LeeEWittlinger and @heatherjbrunner, it’s a simple one-pager.”, <a href=\"https://x.com/photomatt/status/1841276456162279724\">tweeted</a> Matt Mullenweg.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https://automattic.com/2024/10/01/wpe-terms/\">announcement post</a> reveals that initial discussions between Automattic and WP Engine began in February 2023, led by Matt Mullenweg and continued by Toni Schneider during Mullenweg’s sabbatical.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https://automattic.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/term-sheet-wp-engine-inc.-automattic-trademark-license_09.19.2024-1.pdf\">term sheet</a> outlines five key points regarding a trademark license agreement. Under the terms, Automattic would grant WP Engine the rights to use WordPress and WooCommerce trademarks and branding, with WP Engine agreeing to follow all relevant guidelines. WP Engine was presented with three options for compensation:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Pay Automattic a royalty fee of 8% of its gross revenue on a monthly basis, along with a detailed report of its gross revenue, granting Automattic full audit rights.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Allocate 8% of its revenue to employee salaries for work on core WordPress features under the direction of WordPress.org, with both WordPress.org and Automattic retaining audit rights.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Combination of the above two options. </li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The term sheet also prevents WP Engine from modifying or forking any software from Automattic, WooCommerce, or its affiliates. The agreement is for seven years with automatic one-year renewals.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, the announcement post has a critical update: “<strong>Given WP Engine’s behavior, deception, and incompetence since September 20th these terms are no longer sufficient.</strong>”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Matt also told <a href=\"https://www.therepository.email/mullenweg-threatens-corporate-takeover-of-wp-engine\">The Repository</a>, “That deal’s not on the table anymore. We’re seeking more, not 8%. I don’t want to speculate on what the deal might be… In July it was less than 8%, it was smaller. In September it was 8%. The deal they have to do next could be taking over the company, they have no leverage.” </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Public reactions to Mullenweg’s tweet sharing the term sheet have been mixed, with most replies critical of him, though some view the terms as reasonable.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">You want to see their revenue as a report monthly broken down by product. You are a direct competitor! That can\'t be ok in terms of anti trust laws or something. The monetary amount also seems excessive on top of that.</p>&mdash; Steve Struemph (@SteveStruemph) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/SteveStruemph/status/1841294550221897738?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 2, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXeDe4ljBL0nRPgiWup0QhAA_bQO12n6NNjHnixoOIS9Xybum1-zJh-hggqf7xxdRtAkm3NMAJetbOmBKXxMZ8T5qVVAjUSZVLYcNAKIOPp8Ei7OsCEzuGFhYJd3g9R9oKJRulmiGHfsWyAmcPMuse1rLqV1?key=b9ha9SS9oPAGSdj_1r13xQ\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<p>The final results of a survey by Matt from The WP Minute:</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">Automattic v. WP Engine</p>&mdash; Matt (@mattmedeiros) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/mattmedeiros/status/1839660169241755740?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">September 27, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>During the ongoing discussions, co-founder &amp; CEO of Cloudflare Matthew Prince <a href=\"https://x.com/eastdakota/status/1841154152006627663\">offered to donate</a> the capacity to power WordPress.org for the community. </p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">We’d be happy to donate the capacity to power <a href=\"https://t.co/NYrfF5j4KC\">https://t.co/NYrfF5j4KC</a> for the community.</p>&mdash; Matthew Prince <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f325.png\" alt=\"🌥\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> (@eastdakota) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/eastdakota/status/1841154152006627663?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 1, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>Meanwhile, the controversy seems to be spilling into Automattic, too.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">I\'ve been told by a few sources that it\'s not a rumor. I don\'t understand. If you\'re not with Matt, you\'re against Matt and he\'ll pay you to leave? Seems like an odd way of going about things. <a href=\"https://t.co/Eh3NPrIAfm\">https://t.co/Eh3NPrIAfm</a></p>&mdash; Jeff (@jeffr0) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/jeffr0/status/1841252171012042794?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 1, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 02 Oct 2024 19:32:08 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"WPTavern: WP Engine Banned Again, Reports Deploying a Solution\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=163178\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:72:\"https://wptavern.com/wp-engine-banned-again-reports-deploying-a-solution\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4296:\"<p>After a <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/matt-mullenweg-announces-temporary-lifting-of-wp-engine-ban\">brief reprieve</a>, WP Engine has been <a href=\"https://x.com/wpengine/status/1840905665440633087\">banned again</a> from WordPress.org and the company took to X to share: “Thousands of WordPress community members have once again been blocked from accessing WordPress.org. WP Engine has commenced deployment of its solution for accessing updates and installations for plugins and themes across our customers’ sites. We expect deployment of the solution to all customers to be completed within the hour.”</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The next <a href=\"https://x.com/wpengine/status/1840910240801316924\">tweet</a> read: “We are pleased to report that our solution has been fully deployed and regular workflow practices have been restored to our customers around the globe. We thank all our customers for their patience and support over the past week. Like so many of you, we love WordPress, and are committed to the stability and longevity of the community.”</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WP Engine Website Updates</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>WP Engine has made several changes to its website, including reducing the use of the word “WordPress” and adding a new footer clarifying its trademark usage.</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXd9koeDMR5KyJiqM4cqeIumyvqNyx6agVBbHnFqCidKWr1WYFK9ZdouMR7cQMIITZ7Do1GLTKbOsdeyF8Xc_Q0QhRTbmemkZ0gpIPC6E3BJTdYvKiEjFR_p59yhXARlZT6s6KntjRVvlz98U6JddsRN4IpZ?key=ltzJcIAhElrogVEpgiRyHg\" alt=\"\" />New Footer in WP Engine Website\n\n\n\n<p>The names of its pricing plans have been updated, omitting “WordPress” from the titles.</p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXdwSKLlAGwXjLwFHFKC2ZHedUhrAwr7PuAxB4ZjtMQ3YuZDZI1cShKiOlvbpFhjOWAWVWP0erZw75z_GVznKb5b5f85GFYZVC-Y6JxLR_9nYLTFlTIl4GicAG6MXRqTTbHl-5HNyj-6ivW7Gx2HZondn_ze?key=ltzJcIAhElrogVEpgiRyHg\" alt=\"\" />Current WP Engine Pricing Plans \n\n\n\n<p></p>\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXcJnOE9z6belsDyaZK_VYSoAHKInDUVwbLuFtnmLAt4gYvEXUmGlwDgaY18DyBeu5dz8NLzslEdhz7c9fwOUQkrph755ANh-EKckHpoNg3vlmNoyxESDTcjIi7AqsU2i2maHP4VPzMw7eOXxszH-h8dl8DR?key=ltzJcIAhElrogVEpgiRyHg\" alt=\"\" />Previous Pricing Plans of WP Engine\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wpandlegalstuff.com/wp-engine-changes-use-of-trademarks-on-its-website/\">WP And Legal Stuff</a> has covered more details on the website changes.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WP Engine has not offered any explanation about the solution beyond what was shared on Twitter, though people have been asking for more details.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\"><p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">1. Are you mirroring the wordpress(dot)org repos?<br />2. Is this a permanent or temporary solution?<br />3. What are you doing to stop future interruptions?<br />More information would be appreciated, as communication and transparency from <a href=\"https://twitter.com/wpengine?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@wpengine</a> has been exceptionally poor.</p>&mdash; Charlie Moss (@charliemoss) <a href=\"https://twitter.com/charliemoss/status/1840912940372808077?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 1, 2024</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>WP Engine has been silent since the start of the incidents, while Matt has been going all-out speaking about the issues. Matt even issued an open invite to Lee Wittlinger, Managing Director of Silver Lake. “Lee, let’s debate this publicly. Propose a neutral venue and moderator,” he said in a post titled “<a href=\"https://ma.tt/2024/09/missing-spokespeople/\">Where is Lee Wittlinger?</a>” “Why is WP Engine scared of talking to journalists live?”, he had <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2024/09/on-theprimeagen/\">asked</a> earlier.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He also published his <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2024/09/charitable-contributions/\">charitable contributions</a> from 2011 to 2023, shared how WP Engine is <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2024/09/wordpress-engine/\">violating WordPress’ trademarks</a>, and gave interviews to <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/live/F6vXWQrQXgY\">Theo &#8211; t3․gg</a> and <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/live/9sBuHwQpwAU\">WP Minute</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The community is deeply troubled by the proceedings but both sides do not show any signs of backing down. </p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 02 Oct 2024 18:23:06 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"WPTavern: #139 – Andy Fragen on Automatic Update Rollbacks in WordPress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=163149\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:87:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/139-andy-fragen-on-automatic-update-rollbacks-in-wordpress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:46636:\"Transcription<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, automatic update rollbacks in WordPress, what they are, and why this was a difficult feature to build.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today, we have Andy Fragen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy is a dedicated member of the WordPress community, as well as a trauma surgeon. Somehow he manages to balance the demands of his profession with his passion for the community. And, as you will hear, to important work inside of WordPress Core. Even while in the operating room waiting for patients to be prepped, Andy has been known to find moments to answer forum questions and provide support to others. It&#8217;s truly remarkable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy talks about the important topic of automatic rollbacks in WordPress, a feature aimed at reverting to a previous version if an automatic plugin or theme update fails, ensuring the website remains functional for users. I&#8217;ve managed to encapsulate the idea into the previous sentence, but as you will hear, the execution of that idea was anything other than straightforward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy discusses the origins of the rollback feature. The team working on this problem identified complexities and potential fatal errors during plugin updates, and came up with a simple, yet effective solution, which worked. But as with so much in code, some edge cases meant that the road to a fully workable solution for all WordPress users was not quite in sight. Many times the drawing board had to be dusted off, and the problem looked at once again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>While developing this feature, numerous challenges were encountered. From finding consistent test conditions to managing technical limitations. Andy shares insights into the critical role of testing and collaboration with hosting companies, meticulous attention to detail and problem solving skills, developed to combat issues like file write delays, and loop back test redirects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy explains how the team managed to avoid fatal errors in active plugins with extensive testing and incremental improvements. They introduce functionalities like WP error checks, simulation features for testing error handling, and a new move directory function to enhance reliability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy also discusses the broader impact of their rollback efforts. Many users might not notice this new feature, but in a sense that&#8217;s how it should be. The more unnoticeable to end-users update failures are, the better. It means that sites that would previously have been broken and are now working, and that&#8217;s a win for everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in the behind the scenes development of a WordPress feature, that quietly keeps your website running smoothly, and in hearing how a dedicated contributor balances his passion for WordPress with a demanding medical career, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to find out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Andy Fragen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by Andy Fragen. Hello, Andy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:21] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Hello Nathan. How are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, good. Nice to speak to you. We are in WordCamp US, we&#8217;re in Oregon. We&#8217;re in the convention center. I&#8217;ve actually no conception of what the convention center&#8217;s called.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:30] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> I think that&#8217;s it. I think it&#8217;s called the Oregon Convention Center.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Normally when I come to these events, I&#8217;m talking to people who are doing a presentation of some kind, but we had a conversation, introduced, I think, via Courtney Robertson. She suggested that I might like to talk to you about this particular subject, and I bit her hand off frankly, because this is really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re going to talk about automatic rollbacks in WordPress Core. And if that doesn&#8217;t mean anything to you, that&#8217;s fine, Andy will introduce the subject a bit later. First of all though, Andy, it&#8217;s a bit of a boring, dull question, but can you give us your little bio, and then I think, unusually, I&#8217;m going to dwell on your bio for quite a long time, if that&#8217;s all right? Tell us what you do in all of your life.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:08] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> I am a full-time trauma acute care surgeon, and I work in Southern California. And I dabble in WordPress as a hobby.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You are also a Core committer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:19] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Yes, sir. I got my first props for a Core commit about nine years ago.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. So, to me, Core commit, if you have privileges to commit to Core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:29] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Well, I&#8217;m not a committer, I&#8217;m a Core contributor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> A core contributor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:33] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> If they ever offered me commit access, I would decline.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:36] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yes, okay. Nevertheless, you are working at a very high level within WordPress, and this is the kind of thing that I think, this is what people do as a career. You know, they become incredibly skilled at coding, and in this case with WordPress, and this is the level maybe that they reach.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But let&#8217;s just rewind a little bit, because at the beginning of your bio you said you are also a trauma surgeon, which to me seems much more than a regular job. It seems like that would be an incredibly difficult thing to achieve in life, but also a thing which would consume many, many hours. And so I&#8217;m kind of wondering, how do you keep up in life with being a Core contributor as well as a trauma surgeon?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:13] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> As I said previously, time is the only fungible commodity we have. You spend it how you want to spend it. Obviously, depending on how you work and what the structure is, you have certain time availability, and then certain time not availability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some of what I have as a trauma surgeon is downtime. There are certain parts of my day that are busier than others, and there are certain parts of my day that aren&#8217;t as busy. I have been known to answer forum questions, and do support while in the operating room, waiting for a patient to be prepped.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:46] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So, let me just parse that a little bit. Whilst in the hospital, when there are not urgent things to be done, you are whipping out the laptop and contributing to WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:56] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> No, I usually do that on the phone, believe it or not.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think that&#8217;s remarkable. Honestly, I am really, really amazed that you can manage that. I think you must have an incredible grasp of your own time management.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:07] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Honestly, a lot of the support stuff is just having been in my own plugins that I&#8217;ve written for a long time. I have a better understanding of what the issue is almost without even getting too much you know, stack traces and things like that. Not that I don&#8217;t need them sometimes, but if you&#8217;ve ever done support and gotten issues from people, sometimes it takes a while to tease out the actual information you need to give a response.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you regard WordPress as a hobby then, or is it more like a second career almost?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:36] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Career would imply that you earn something from it. And, yes, I do sell a plugin, and part of the reason my wife allowed me to fly up to Portland for a WordCamp is I could say that the plugin sales paid for an airline ticket and a hotel. The usual deal I had with my wife living in Southern California was I could go to any WordCamp I could drive to. Since Covid they&#8217;ve really just stopped. Everybody&#8217;s sort of burned out, and that&#8217;s a whole other issue unfortunately.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. How much time do you think, let&#8217;s say a month, would you be putting into WordPress?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:08] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Some of that depends on where you consider your time. If I&#8217;m kind of paying attention to the Core dev Slack when they&#8217;re doing meetings, do you count that towards time? I mean, some people do, some people don&#8217;t. So I have said that I have usually put anywhere between 10 to 15 hours a week into it, depending on where it was. I mean, for a while I was running the Core upgrade install meeting. Sometimes we get, there&#8217;s not much for us to talk about, we&#8217;ve foregone the meeting at times.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes, somehow I&#8217;ve found myself as a component maintainer for the upgrade install component, along with several other people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Over the years I&#8217;ve done, or found my way into, I should say, several different things. And one of the things I did when we met Courtney last WordCamp US in San Diego, she was having trouble getting set up in a dev environment on her computer. And I&#8217;d already sort of figured it out, and sat down and helped her with it and, yes, by the end of the time period, we had Courtney up and running in the docker dev environment for WordPress Core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So 10 to 15 hours a week, 40 to 60 hours a month, that&#8217;s a lot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:14] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Yes, and you have no idea what my normal schedule is like. Even if I didn&#8217;t do that, as a trauma acute care surgeon, we work shift work, and our shifts are 12 hours long. And an FTE, full-time equivalent, for being considered full-time is 16 shifts a month. Whether that&#8217;s two shifts in a row in 24 hours, or not, or individually, it just depends. I would&#8217;ve considered at some point in time, in the last several years, only doing 16 shifts quite nice. I&#8217;ve done as many as 30 in a month, and probably in the last several years, averaged somewhere around 20, give or take.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think what I&#8217;m taking from this, Andy, is that you work quite hard in all things that you do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:59] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> I have two adult children, 29 and 23, and I did not encourage them in the least to go into medicine. I think they saw how hard I worked, or how much I worked, and I&#8217;m very pleased to say that neither one of them went into healthcare. I think it&#8217;s just a changing field.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. Where did your interest in WordPress, or coding come from? Is this something that you&#8217;ve had as a child, or did you pick this up later in life?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:23] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> I took a coding class in college, not my major. But I graduated from college in 1985 as a senior, the first time they had an intro to microcomputers, and there was this new computer out called a Macintosh. And it looked fascinating. And the class had a lab, you could either choose to be in the Macintosh lab or the PC lab. And honestly it was a freshman level class, I took the class just so I could do the lab and learned how to use the computer. And on graduation I bought one, and I&#8217;ve been using Macintosh computers since 1985.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So it is not really from childhood this, I guess maybe, I don&#8217;t know exactly how old you are, but certainly at my age, computers were a brand new thing. You couldn&#8217;t really do a great deal with computers back in the day. But I picked up the interest when I was probably a similar age to you, and it just kind of blossomed in me, and I just got really into it. And although it&#8217;s become what I do for a living, I can well imagine that if I hadn&#8217;t have done it for a living, it would&#8217;ve been a big part of my life anyway, a little bit like you by the sounds of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:23] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> I look at it as an interesting hobby. It&#8217;s a lot about problem solving, and it&#8217;s a lot about making a repetitive process simple, defined and consistent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:34] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. We&#8217;re going to talk now about something which is new in WordPress, and it&#8217;s automatic rollbacks. I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s a more grandiose title than that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:44] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> We call it, I mean, internally we call it rollback auto updates, that&#8217;s just part of it though. Initially we just called it rollback.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s taken several years, and many cycles to kind of get into Core. And part of the issue was, when we first had it, a lot of Core committers don&#8217;t want to touch something, or don&#8217;t want to commit something that touches such a large piece of WordPress, such as plugin updates, or theme updates. And as you can imagine, everybody had a lot of trepidation. And it was a big enough project that somebody who wasn&#8217;t directly involved in it, if they left and weren&#8217;t paying attention for several months, they&#8217;d come back and whole things were new again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right. Let&#8217;s describe what it is. So this is my understanding of it. A couple of years ago it feels like now, we got this option in the plugin screen to automatically update plugins. And it may be that almost everything in your WP admin, plugin wise, you can automatically update. So you don&#8217;t check a box, but in effect you check a box.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And from that moment on, that plugin, or all the plugins, if you decide to go that route, will automatically update in the background, so you don&#8217;t have to think. I guess it&#8217;s a part of a broader initiative to make WordPress as automatic as possible, so that you don&#8217;t have to log in if you&#8217;re an inexperienced user, or you&#8217;re just not really bothered about WordPress, you just want a website. And it&#8217;ll just all tick over in the background and keep itself updated.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now that&#8217;s great, except when there&#8217;s a problem with the plugin update, and the updating automatically breaks something. You know, you come back and either you&#8217;ve got an email to say that things have gone wrong, or you just go to your website and discover, why does my website now not function anymore?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The initiative here was to make it so that some automatic detection mechanism would update the plugin, throw an error, say, there&#8217;s a problem, wait, roll it back, so go back to the previous safe version, and go from there. And so everything in theory should be good. Now that all sounds so straightforward to say, but just before we hit record, you indicated to me, and let&#8217;s get into this really granularly, you indicate to me that it was anything other than straightforward. Now, why was that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:54] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> So Core has had the ability for a failed update to revert, try again, I&#8217;m not quite sure of the process, since about 3.5 or 3.7. And the ability to roll back a failed update for a plugin, or a theme really just wasn&#8217;t around. Colin Stewart and I, and Paul Baron had kind of gotten together on trac tickets about rolling back, and I think it was Paul&#8217;s initial trac ticket about it and, no, I don&#8217;t remember the number offhand, that really got us started. And it was intriguing to all of us on how to do it, and where to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so we get together in private DMs, and discuss it, and kind of try and figure it out. We would overcome problems and basically create the solution, and I&#8217;d put it in a plugin so that we could test. And what we found was, well, once we got to parts where we had the whole solution, and we had a whole solution for quite a while, including the auto updates before we even had any of it committed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But again, as I say, it was so complex and, you know, when you have millions of sites, and 45% of the web, and all of them are doing updates to plugins and themes at any given time, it&#8217;s like touching the third rail. I mean, sometimes you can kind of get away with it, but more often than not, you could potentially kill yourself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we never had a Core committer deeply involved in it. We had some that came and would give us advice on how to do things, or not do things, and we would seek to solve those issues and those problems. But without having someone with commit access, it made it very difficult to actually get things in. Colin now has commit access, and he got it just before the rollback was complete. But again, he&#8217;s like, I don&#8217;t feel comfortable, as my very first commit, committing this big part of Core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>After we&#8217;d had it done for a while, there was a discussion on the trac ticket about what it would take to test it. And one of the Core committers suggested that we test it on thousands of sites, of various different server setups, to ensure that it didn&#8217;t cause issues or problems.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, conceptually I do understand that, because WordPress can run on a vast variety of installations, and hardware, and virtual environments, and all sorts of things. You don&#8217;t want to screw it up. You don&#8217;t want to brick somebody&#8217;s site consistently.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The problem is, I don&#8217;t think anybody&#8217;s ever been asked to do something so extensive before. And so we basically found that it was almost impossible. I was at the first WordCamp in San Diego, the first one after Covid, and I literally went around to all the hosts and said, I need you to test this, I need you to test this, I need you to test this. And everyone was very agreeable, but they would test it on their environment, right? Make sure that it worked in their system, but probably only on one site that was a test site, and not in production on anywhere else. And I&#8217;m not quite sure that that&#8217;s what they were looking for.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We only kind of overcame that process when we broke it down in smaller pieces. So rollback started out with getting, let me go back. Currently, the way Core works, Core updates work, and the way plugin and theme updates work is, Core would download the package, the update, it would store it on your system locally. It would run some checks, it would re-expand the zip into the upgrade folder, and then it would do a recursive file copy into the location of the plugin directory, or the theme directory. Although it would also delete the file first, before it that recursive copy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Consequently, if something failed, your plugin was gone. You had to go find it again and reinstall it, if somewhere along that process failed. The first thing we did is try and, well, one of the first things I did was made it a zip file. So I back up the plugin or theme is a zip file, store that, do the update. If it failed, I&#8217;d reinstall the zip file. But we heard from several hosting companies, that may be taxing on resources creating, and zipping, and unzipping files at that scale.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I&#8217;m like, okay, let&#8217;s come up with something else. And what we ended up with is changing that recursive file copy to use PHPs rename function, with the recursive file copy as a backup, as a fallback for it. Now, you would think that, since this runs on PHP, and everybody has PHP installed, that it would work out just fine, except VirtualBox and VVV. And so these are custom local dev environments.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We did put out a call to the hosting companies, does anyone offer a virtualised solution using VVV or VirtualBox? And the answer was, no. We kept getting failures using the PHP rename and VirtualBox. Partial file transfers, partial rights, and it took a lot of investigation to figure it out. Peter Wilson, one of the Core committers from Australia, uses VVV as his dev environment. And when you get a Core committer, and some basic part of this isn&#8217;t working, it&#8217;s not going in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we got the fallback. We did a lot of research, and it appears, from some Composer bug reports, that VirtualBox has sort of a delayed file right. Go figure. And they found that by adding a 200 millisecond delay to things, it solved the problem. We added a 200 millisecond delay to things, it sort of solved the problem. We later had some help from, I want to say it was Andrew Ozz, who&#8217;s clearly been around WordPress for a long time. And he suggested we try flushing the memory for, after we did the rights and stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we eventually got it so that it did work by doing that. We had a PR for essentially a new function, for a move directory, move dir, underscore dir, that replaced, copied, the recursive file copy, copy dir, in the update process. Copy dir&#8217;s still there as a fallback, but we now had the PHPs rename function working in every environment that we had, and consistently, even with VirtualBox and its limitations, or its peculiarities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that was the first big step we had towards getting committed. And I want to say that was committed in 6.2. So if you think back, all the stuff we had, aside from that little piece with the VirtualBox, was all done before 6.2. And the final piece just got committed in 6.6. So when I say this was years in the making, it really was years in the making.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The second part we did was just on manual updates. So we had, when you click a manual update, several things can happen during the course of the update process. Somewhere along the way the file copy, or the download can fail, the file copy can fail, certain pieces can be missing. So we created enough checks during that process and returned errors, such that, if any of those pieces failed, how we started with is storing the file to be updated in a temporary update folder.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so if any of those processes failed, we would go and restore that folder using our moving function. The process was actually very quick in testing, on the order of, you know, less than a second because PHP rename just sticks the whole chunk and moves it. So you have to remember the first part of the process on the update is, you delete the plugin in the folder that it&#8217;s in, and so as you&#8217;re downloading and installing the other one, you&#8217;ve got nothing left.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The normal update process, you&#8217;ve deactivated the plugin, you reinstall it, and then it reactivates. That&#8217;s in a manual process. Remember when we get to the automatic updates how that&#8217;s different, and where it can be problematic. So we had restore functions, we had our delete functions, because after we had a couple of cron tasks that we created to clean up after ourselves on a weekly basis, so that those copies wouldn&#8217;t be around anymore. Even on a shutdown function, we would delete the folders, and then on a weekly basis we&#8217;d make sure they were all gone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So once we got that working and committed, we had basically a safe method for manual updates. So if someone would go to the dashboard, they&#8217;d click update, if somewhere along the way their connection lagged, or their connection to wordpress.org was delayed, and things took too long, and the server timed out, it would reinstall the previous version. And you would still show that the plugin or theme required an update, because you&#8217;ve now reinstalled the previous version that was installed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We didn&#8217;t have to go out to .org and re-download anything. Part of that is really what limited the resources that we were acquiring for servers. Because all we were requiring them to do was copy a directory back and forth to different locations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What&#8217;s the flag for success or failure in this case? What&#8217;s the thing which determines that the update hasn&#8217;t succeeded?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:06] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> It depends on different parts of the process. So if there&#8217;s a failure in the download package, and the downloading the package, there are several parts that we&#8217;re already checking, where it would succeed or fail. We either created new WP errors for those, and returned those values, and so when we looked for those returns, if they happened, we would send it to the functions we wrote to restore from the backup or not.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we&#8217;d start the process by creating the backup. And then if the process continued on without error, the backup just got deleted at the end. If there was an error in the process, the backup was restored. You&#8217;d basically be right back to the place you started from, requiring an update to either the plugin or a theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. Does the user in this scenario of the website, do they get some sort of notification that, actually, this didn&#8217;t work out? We&#8217;ve rolled back, your site is now working, but the thing that you intended to do didn&#8217;t happen. And if they do, does it list out what the problem was? Like it was, I don&#8217;t know, a download failure, or the plugin seems to be malfunctioning.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:03] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> You would see an error message, either in, if you were using the shiny updates on the plugins page, or the themes page, you&#8217;d receive the error message, and kind of a brief description of where the error was. Either the directory wasn&#8217;t writeable, or there was a download problem, or whatever the error happened to be. And then you&#8217;d be back at the place, if you refreshed your screen, it would show that you still needed the update.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you did the update from the Core update page, you know how the update shows, here&#8217;s the zip I&#8217;m downloading, it&#8217;s doing this, you would see an update error there. And part of what we put in the test plugin, or the feature plugin, was a way to simulate an error. And so we simulated a download error. And so you&#8217;d see that, and it would say it&#8217;s simulated error.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> If I was to receive this error, let&#8217;s say that I&#8217;d put a plugin onto automatic updates, and I had received a failure, does your setup then say, okay, permanently stop automatically updating this, or is it more a process of wait for a day, or is there a setting that I can engage to say, try again arbitrarily later, just keep trying the update, or is it a case of, okay, we&#8217;ve identified there&#8217;s a problem here, now it&#8217;s up to you to go and check and fix?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:15] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Well, at this point it&#8217;s just a manual update, right? So if the manual update fails, you refresh the page, it&#8217;ll say, update now again. And you just try again. Our assumption at that point is, if you continue to get an error because your upgrade path isn&#8217;t writeable, well, it&#8217;ll tell you that, and you probably have to check your permissions on the folder, and make sure that they are writeable. If there&#8217;s some other issue involved in downloading the file, the usual assumption is that will go away. And so you try updating again, and maybe the next time you update it works. You&#8217;re done.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I guess one of the goals of automatically updating plugins was that you could have a site that you essentially could have an autopilot. And it could be, let&#8217;s say a brochure site, where the intention really is just to have a site and never look at the backend ever again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:01] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> We haven&#8217;t gotten to that part. That was part one and two. The third part was the auto updates. Now, this does not apply to themes, and I say that doesn&#8217;t apply to themes because themes are kind of a different beast. And I guess we probably could figure that out, and maybe that&#8217;s the next, on the part four, which we haven&#8217;t really defined yet. But there&#8217;s certainly a lot more plugin updates than theme updates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The difference between an auto update and a manual update is the auto update runs in a cron task. The auto update does not deactivate the plugin, update the plugin, and then reactivate the plugin. The plugin is active the entire time, which means if the plugin has an error in it, and the update completes successfully, you&#8217;ll have a white screen. And this has happened.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What we needed to do was figure out how to catch the error, essentially. And I want to say, the first iteration, there are basically three types of error handlers in PHP. I was checking every single one of them to make sure that we would catch the error. Now the problem with doing that is the shutdown error handler catches everything. So sometimes you catch the error twice, and that&#8217;s okay, but it was trying to figure out how to make sense out of some of those errors that was difficult.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so we had a list of certain types of errors sometimes, and we would cause a rollback if we spotted any of those things. And it worked. For all the errors that we figured out, it worked. That&#8217;s not what we went with though, because what they don&#8217;t tell you is, when you write these things and you have feature plugins, is that, the way they integrate into Core, when you&#8217;re trying to commit them, may be totally different. So integrating it into Core is like, okay, now I need to update this file in Core, and that file in Core. Some of those things we could not duplicate in a plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the things that we ended up with was a change to the load PHP file. There&#8217;s no way to mock it, there wasn&#8217;t. I couldn&#8217;t duplicate it, it loads too early, I couldn&#8217;t replace it. So we were just, okay, this could be the problem. So we tried to work around it a little bit, which is fine too. Colin did a little bit more digging and found out that, if you edit a plugin in the plugin editor on screen, it does a loop back check as it saves, to determine whether or not there&#8217;s a fatal in that plugin, and it won&#8217;t save it for you. And so we reutilise that loop back, as a test for whether the reactivation, or the installation of the plugin causes an issue or not.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We found it worked well. It greatly simplified what we were doing. I don&#8217;t even want to get into the fact that I was using reflection, and reflected objects, and reflected methods, and all sorts of things to fix it in the plugin in the first place. It worked and, yes, there are places in Core that uses the reflection classes, and reflection objects, and things like that, but not many. At least we knew we weren&#8217;t breaking new ground with that. But in adding that to Core, it made it a lot easier to do the loop back request.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Part of the issue in testing was we didn&#8217;t really have a file that would accurately fail every single time it was updated. I make an updater, it was easy to create a file that would fail on an update. So that&#8217;s all we had for a moment, until Aaron Jorbin piped up in one of the Slack meetings and said, here&#8217;s a plugin that&#8217;s been in the repo for a while, the title is, DO NOT USE THIS PLUGIN! And it is exactly for that. It&#8217;s set to fail on an update, it&#8217;s set to fatal on an update. And so now we had a plugin that other people could use more successfully, they didn&#8217;t have to go and install my updater or to find it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Having both of them installed though did help things out because there&#8217;s all the scenarios you have to test for. What happens when you have a plugin that runs, and then a fatal, and then another plugin update that needs to happen, and maybe another fatal after that, or maybe two fatals in a row? All these things you don&#8217;t really think about, but you should test for, or you have to test for.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it&#8217;s all manual testing. I had no idea how we could ever write, and then testing for it otherwise, without just doing it manually. I want to say, the first time we tested it for the update rollback, we picked 13 of the largest plugins. And when I say largest, some of the more complex plugins, as far as folders, and files, and size to run, and to see whether we get timeouts, whether they would complete successfully, and things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We found what worked well, and that&#8217;s one of the places we found that VirtualBox error, because it would just time out. It wouldn&#8217;t complete it. We were making it fall back to the file copy originally, and nobody is going to have this list of files to recursively update at any one time, except us and testing, but it just wouldn&#8217;t work consistently. And so that was before we got the move directory function in and working for it, and then it worked.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What I&#8217;m getting from this is you must have incredible patience. Years and years and years of trying different things, problems emerging that you couldn&#8217;t foresee, solutions that you tried to implement, and then discover, okay, that didn&#8217;t work, let&#8217;s try something new. I don&#8217;t know how good you are at not throwing things at the wall, but it feels like there was an opportunity here to throw things at the wall.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:19] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> You&#8217;re making an assumption Nathan, who says I don&#8217;t throw things at the wall.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Was it a fairly, how to describe this? Did it surface things about the open source project, in terms of the way it&#8217;s done, that you wish were different?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:33] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Certainly. You know, one of the things that certainly helped move us along was having a lead developer, in this case Andrew Ozz, take an interest, and help answer questions and move along the way. He helped us tremendously with the plugin dependencies feature as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Since none of us were committers, and it&#8217;s a big feature, it would be nice if the leadership assigned experienced Core committers to feature projects, assuming that most of the people involved in the development of those projects aren&#8217;t Core committers. Another reason I should never have commit privileges.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:11] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it sounds like from everything that you&#8217;ve said, that the process could have been expedited in a variety of different ways.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:17] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> It certainly could have. And some of that made for a lot of frustration because we would have experienced Core committers who would look at the project every couple of months maybe. It was a huge undertaking in total. And it was really only by splitting up into smaller pieces that we were able to accomplish it at all.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:36] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and also the dramatically impactful nature of what you were doing. And I&#8217;m sure the irony&#8217;s not lost on anybody, that you could have achieved fatal errors in the attempt to remove fatal errors. Just the idea that such an important thing, from your perspective, maybe didn&#8217;t get the, how to describe it, didn&#8217;t get the.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:55] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Attention.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:55] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, the attention, the sort of level of importance that it might have done given the impactful nature of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That now is in the past though, this is now a feature of WordPress. How much of a hand on heart moment, and I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s the right phrase, how difficult was it for you on the day that the version of WordPress that the shipped with came out? Were you fairly confident at that point that all the things were going to be fine?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:18] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> I&#8217;ve been running the plugin, which has had a version of the rollback code in it on sites for years, with plugins that would fatal on update. Now, the auto update will only check for the fatal update if the plugin is active, right? Because if it&#8217;s not active and it updates, all you&#8217;ll happen is, is when you go to activate it, it won&#8217;t let you activate it because it&#8217;ll say it fataled. And so you&#8217;ll have to go and reinstall another version or something, but it won&#8217;t take your site down. We specifically don&#8217;t test for plugins that aren&#8217;t active. Honestly, we&#8217;ve been running the code for so long on our own stuff, I wasn&#8217;t worried. I mean, have you heard of anyone having a problem?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No, and that&#8217;s pretty remarkable. Have you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:01] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> No. Well, yes, yesterday.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:04] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Deliberately?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:04] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Well, it was something we found that we hadn&#8217;t honestly considered.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> But just one individual, so far, that you know of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:10] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> So far. And I think I actually no way to mitigate it. Apparently, if you have a redirect to your homepage, the loopback doesn&#8217;t work. So what happens is you don&#8217;t see a failure, even if there is a failure. And so because you don&#8217;t see the failure, because you&#8217;re now no longer looking at your actual homepage, you&#8217;re looking at a redirect, it might work just fine. And so you don&#8217;t revert, and your site might, you know, when you go somewhere else in the site, it might fatal then.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Given that WordPress occupies 43% of the web, and that this endeavor of yours, and colleagues working on it, is probably now inside of millions of websites, the fact that you&#8217;ve found one character who has been able to show that it didn&#8217;t work in a, it sounds like you can mitigate more or less immediately. That&#8217;s pretty remarkable. And you&#8217;ve just, over the last 40 minutes or so, you&#8217;ve done this, it sounds like a detective story almost. Here&#8217;s a problem, we tried to fix it, this went wrong, we tried to fix that, this went wrong, we didn&#8217;t have the boots on the ground or whatever. You&#8217;ve managed to achieve it. And it also feels as if this is the kind of feature update that nobody will ever thank you for, because it&#8217;s in the background, if you know what I mean?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:24] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Oh, no.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:25] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:25] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> The people that are going to thank us for this are all hosting companies that aren&#8217;t going to see these issues anymore.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:30] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s what I meant. It&#8217;s more of an invisible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:33] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> It is exactly invisible. The user has nothing to do. All they have to do is have auto updates enabled, and their plugins will auto update. If there&#8217;s a problem or an issue, it&#8217;ll revert back, and all it&#8217;ll do is show another update again, in 12 hours it&#8217;ll try again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> As we said at the top of this interview, it sounds so simple, just roll back when there&#8217;s a problem, but now we know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:56] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> It&#8217;s not that the problem isn&#8217;t simple to define, it&#8217;s finding all the little pieces in creating the solution that isn&#8217;t always simple.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:04] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I remember Kennedy saying, we choose to go to the moon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:07] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> Not because we have to, because we want to, or something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and the problem was hard, but they got over it. And we have echoes of that here. All I can say is thank you so much for making this an important thing. And hopefully, for me at least, and probably everybody else, the more invisible it is in the future of WordPress, in a sense, the better that is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The less time that I have to worry about plugins updating, the more time that I can concentrate on building the website, and not thinking about those things. And for the millions, millions of people who have no interest in WordPress, but just want a website, this stuff will be remarkable, but probably they&#8217;ll never know, which is nice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:48] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> You know, honestly our goal is if nobody ever knows about it, perfect. That means it works. No one sees a problem. It hopefully pushes people into clicking that little button link that says, enable auto updates, so that they keep their sites up to date. Because one of the biggest security issues in WordPress is out of date websites, or websites with out of date plugins.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, dear listener, if you are listening to this podcast, I think there&#8217;s a high chance that you obsess about WordPress. So hopefully what Andy has told us today gives you some understanding of the complexities of what&#8217;s been going on in the background, but also will make you aware that it happened. If you haven&#8217;t been reading the change log, and you&#8217;ve just updated to the latest version of WordPress, this fairly consequential, but fairly hidden feature is now available to you free of charge, on the back of Andy&#8217;s, and many other people&#8217;s labor. So just very quick thank you from me. Thank you for taking the time to do that, and thank you for chatting to me today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:46] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> It is certainly not me alone. Colin Stewart has been invaluable, and is a brilliant developer.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, a profound change to WordPress. Yeah, thank you so much for chatting with me today, I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:58] <strong>Andy Fragen:</strong> You&#8217;re very welcome, sir.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afragen/\">Andy Fragen</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy is a dedicated member of the WordPress community as well as a trauma surgeon. Somehow he manages to balance the demands of his profession with his passion for the community and, as you will hear, to important work inside of WordPress Core. Even while in the operating room, waiting for patients to be prepped, Andy has been known to find moments to answer forum questions and provide support to others. It’s truly remarkable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy talks about the important topic of automatic rollbacks in WordPress, a feature aimed at reverting to a previous version if an automatic plugin or theme update fails, ensuring the website remains functional for users. I’ve managed to encapsulate the idea into the previous sentence, but as you will hear, the execution of that idea was anything other than straightforward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy discusses the origins of the rollback feature. The team working on this problem identified complexities and potential fatal errors during plugin updates and came up with a simple yet effective solution which worked, but as with so much in code, some edge cases meant that the road to a fully workable solution for all WordPress users was not quite in sight. Many times the drawing board had to be dusted off and the problem looked at once again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>While developing this feature, numerous challenges were encountered, from finding consistent test conditions to managing technical limitations. Andy shares insights into the critical role of testing and collaboration with hosting companies, meticulous attention to detail, and problem-solving skills developed to combat issues like file write delays and loopback test redirects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy explains how the team managed to avoid fatal errors in active plugins with extensive testing and incremental improvements. They introduced functionalities like WP error checks, simulation features for testing error handling, and a new move directory function to enhance reliability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Andy also discusses the broader impact of their rollback efforts. Many users might not notice this new feature, but in a sense that’s how it should be. The more unnoticeable to end-users update failures are, the better. It means that sites that would previously have been broken, are now working, and that’s a win for everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in the behind-the-scenes development of a WordPress feature that quietly keeps your website running smoothly, and in hearing how a dedicated contributor balances his passion for WordPress with a demanding medical career, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afragen/\">Andy&#8217;s WordPress.org profile</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://github.com/afragen/core-rollback\">core-rollback on GitHub</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 02 Oct 2024 14:03:22 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:107:\"Do The Woo Community: WordPress Accessibility Day with Michelle Frechette, Sarah Kornblum &amp; Ryan Bracey\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85884\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:100:\"https://dothewoo.io/wordpress-accessibility-day-with-michelle-freschette-sarah-kornblum-ryan-bracey/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:25581:\"Episode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p>Michelle:<br />Well, I&#8217;m excited because I host a bunch of podcasts. This is my first time guest hosting on the <em>Do the Woo</em> Podcast. So we&#8217;re here today at WordPress Event Talk because the three of us are going to be working on a very important event coming up. So who is <em>us</em>? I&#8217;m Michelle Frechette. I am the Director of Community Engagement at StellarWP. I&#8217;m also the Executive Director at Post Status, but all of that takes a backseat today to the fact that I am one of the organizers for an incredible upcoming 24-hour event on accessibility called WordPress Accessibility Day, coming up on October 9th and 10th. So who is the rest of <em>us</em>? I&#8217;m going to ask you to introduce yourselves, tell us a little bit about yourselves, and then we&#8217;re going to talk, the three of us, about why WordPress Accessibility Day is so important. Over to you, Sarah. Sarah, tell us a little bit about yourself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Hi, I am Sarah. I have my own web design company, <em>Two Dogs and a Laptop.</em> Before coming into the WordPress space and the website world, I was a middle school special education math teacher. Accessibility has a very important place in my heart because, given the right tools, anybody can do anything they want to do. So that&#8217;s why I am here today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />I love it. I do have one question though. Does that mean you could never get another dog?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Right now, I actually have two fosters.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />So it&#8217;s temporarily four dogs and a laptop?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Yes, right now it&#8217;s four dogs and a laptop. The numbers change every once in a while.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />As long as the URL stays the same, it&#8217;s all good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />That&#8217;s right. The name doesn&#8217;t change, but sometimes the number fluctuates a little bit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Exactly. And joining us today, we also have Ryan Bracy. Ryan, tell us about yourself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Yeah, my name is Ryan Bracey. I&#8217;m the Director of Web Development and User Experience at an agency called <em>Second Melody</em> based in New Jersey. I am also an organizing member of WordPress Accessibility Day, which, as Michelle said, kind of takes front row today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />I&#8217;m excited. This is my first time organizing this event. Ryan, this is your second year, is that correct?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Yeah, I was a volunteer three years ago and an organizer the past two.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Oh, so it&#8217;s more than, yeah. And Sarah?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />This is my first time. I&#8217;m new to this space as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />So, how have you found our organization? It seems like we had our first meeting at the beginning of the year, thinking we had so much time, but now it&#8217;s coming up very quickly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />It goes really fast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />It really does.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />When we&#8217;re talking in January or February, it seems like the event is so far away, and now we&#8217;re here, and it&#8217;s crunch time. It&#8217;s coming up real quick.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />It sure is. Comments, Ryan?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />No, the same. Yeah, I remember a bunch of our updates being like, &#8220;I&#8217;m just in a holding pattern right now,&#8221; and then all of a sudden, it was every day something new happening. But we&#8217;re coming up to it now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />And now we need flight control because so much is happening all at once.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Yes, exactly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />So what are your roles within the organizing team? Sarah, what are you doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />I am helping June with social media, so I&#8217;ve been doing a lot of the social media posting. She does most of it. I&#8217;m just here for moral support and backup. But it&#8217;s a lot. I don&#8217;t know how any one person does it on their own, which is why there&#8217;s a team of us, right? Because it&#8217;s not possible to do all of this. It&#8217;s become such a big day that you need as much help as you can get.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Absolutely. It would be like seven full-time jobs if anybody tried to do it alone. It&#8217;s unlikely that one person could handle it all. If anybody could, it’d probably be Amber or Joe, but we&#8217;ll talk about them in a little while. Ryan, what&#8217;s your role on the team?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />I think Amber and Joe did it by themselves for a while, too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Probably.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />I am the team lead for the speakers&#8217; team. My role this year has been receiving speaker applications, reviewing them with my team, making selections, coordinating with speakers, getting them the information they need, adding them to our Slack workspace, and preparing them for the event. We&#8217;re also holding practice sessions as we lead up to the day. So, pretty much everything with the speakers is coming through me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Yeah, 24 hours of programming is all but on your shoulders. I know you have a team, and we all work together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Yeah, and day of, I&#8217;ll just be coordinating with speakers, of course. But yes, it&#8217;s not just me, there&#8217;s a whole team.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Absolutely. You asked what I do. I am the team lead for marketing. I&#8217;ve been doing things like asking people like Bob to let us have an episode of his podcast to talk about the event. We&#8217;ve also had great team members on other podcasts and webinars for different companies to spread the word as much as possible. Which brings me to my next question: Why is web accessibility so important? Why should people attend a 24-hour event like this? We don’t expect anyone to listen to all 24 hours live, but why is it important for people to learn more about web accessibility, especially if they don&#8217;t have any disabilities themselves? Ryan, what are your thoughts?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />A lot of thoughts, but I&#8217;ll try to keep it short. So, I&#8217;ve been involved in this space for a few years now, probably since 2016 or 2017, when I started to become aware of accessibility. At first, you think it&#8217;s just about catering to people with disabilities. But as you dive in, you realize that making a website more accessible improves the experience for everyone. Better contrast, more functional UI components, structured headings—all of these make the site easier to use for everyone, not just those with disabilities. By focusing on accessibility, you put out a much better product, which benefits everyone. At the end of the day, you&#8217;re creating something that anyone in the world can use, which is how it should be. There&#8217;s a Tim Berners-Lee quote where he says the internet is for everybody, and accessibility is a way to achieve that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Oh, I like that. Sarah, when we talk about accessibility, I know you and I echo everything Ryan just said. I don&#8217;t know if you have anything to add, but we often hear that accessibility compromises design and aesthetics. What are your thoughts about that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />I don’t think accessibility compromises design and aesthetics. If your design can&#8217;t be viewed by most people, what&#8217;s the point of the design? If you feel it’s a compromise, then the design wasn’t good to begin with. Accessibility means everyone can use it, no matter their background or what&#8217;s going on in their lives. Going back to my teaching background, when I made adjustments to help certain students, all the students benefited. It made the material accessible for everyone, not just those who needed extra help. The same applies to websites—accessibility helps everyone, and it’s often overlooked if you don’t personally need it. Accessibility Day starts the conversations that need to be had.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />That reminds me of something people often talk about when they say accessibility helps everyone. When curb cuts started to be required for wheelchair users, of which I am one, it also made life easier for people pushing strollers, using pushcarts, or walking with a cane or walker. Curb cuts benefit so many people, not just those in wheelchairs. Isn’t that also true of accessibility features on the web?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Definitely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />So true. And those little plates with bumps on them at curb cuts—those are meant for people with vision impairments, but they help everyone. If you&#8217;re texting while walking and you hit those bumps, you’re reminded that a street crossing is coming up. They benefit everyone, not just those with vision impairments.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Absolutely. Ryan, you had something to add?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />I love bringing in real-world examples like that. It makes the case for accessibility so much clearer. The web is just an extension of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />I like to compare it to my experience as a wheelchair user. I walk around my house, but as soon as I go beyond 20 or 30 feet, I need accessibility features. If I approach a building with no curb cut and no automatic door opener, I can&#8217;t access it. The same happens on the web—if the tabbing doesn’t work, or the screen reader isn&#8217;t accurate, I can’t access your website, just like I can’t access stairs in the physical world.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Yeah, that&#8217;s great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Exactly. And there are so many people who need the help, so you&#8217;re losing those potential customers if your website isn’t accessible. If somebody can’t access it, they’re leaving. Just like you wouldn’t try to break down a door to get into a building—you’d just go somewhere else.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />We often think of people with disabilities as being born with them or having experienced some tragic accident, like becoming blind or using a wheelchair. But the truth is, most of us—or I’ll say many of us—will end up with some kind of disability as we age. For instance, a large portion of the population will need glasses as they get older. And I think my generation, and younger ones, will experience this even more rapidly because of our constant screen use. This is anecdotal, but from my own experience, I now wear not only glasses for the computer but also bifocals. That didn’t happen because I was born with vision issues—it’s from years of screen use and aging. So, web accessibility benefits all of us as we grow older and need things like larger fonts and better contrast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />That&#8217;s a great point. Microsoft has an Inclusivity Handbook, which is excellently written, and they break down user impairments into categories: visual impairment, hearing impairment, motor impairment, cognitive impairment. But then they also talk about the temporality of those impairments, meaning that you can have a permanent disability, a temporary disability, or even a situational one. For instance, if someone breaks an arm, that’s a temporary disability. Or if you’re a new parent, breastfeeding a child, you temporarily can’t use both hands, so you have a motor disability. Situational impairments might be something like being on a noisy train and not being able to hear your phone, so captions become really important. Accessibility helps everyone, even in temporary or situational contexts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />I love how you mentioned situational and temporary disabilities, because those are so often overlooked. When people think about disabilities, they tend to only consider permanent disabilities, but there are so many times when a temporary or situational disability affects someone’s ability to use a website, and accessibility helps in those moments, too. For example, if you’re on the subway, you can’t listen to something at full volume, so you need captions. Accessibility just makes life easier for everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Exactly. And every time you consider these things, you increase the number of users your website reaches by making it accessible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />I live in a condo built in 1988, and every door handle is just a knob. I walk with a cane, so if I have something in one hand and my cane in the other, I have to put something down to turn the doorknob. I just ordered brand-new handles with levers so that I can hit them with my elbow and open the door without putting anything down. It’s a simple fix, but it makes a big difference. It’s the same with web accessibility—it’s often about small changes that make things much more accessible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />You just have to be careful not to make the doors too accessible for your cats! They might learn how to open them, and then you’ve got a whole new problem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Right, especially when you have guests in the restroom—awkward! But yes, you&#8217;re always being observed if you live with pets.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />I love the door example. Those are called Norman doors—doors that are confusing to use. It’s a user experience concept introduced by Don Norman in the ’90s. His example was how you don’t know whether to push or pull a door when you walk up to it. Your example ties into that—it’s about making doors, or anything, easier to use.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Exactly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Something as simple as a door.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />And even with keyless entry cars now, I never take my car key out anymore. It used to be a hassle to find it in my bag or pocket, but now I just walk up to the car, and it opens. Accessibility can be like that—it makes things easier for everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />I need one of those cars! My next car will definitely have more features.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />But bringing it back to WordPress Accessibility Day—Ryan, you’re the speaker wrangler, the lead speaker organizer, as we might say in WordCamp talk. What are some of the things we can look forward to that day?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Oh boy, this is a hard question for me because I love all my speakers equally! But yes, I’ll start with the keynote. Our keynote speaker this year is Lainey Feingold, a disability rights lawyer. She’s going to talk to us about the legal landscape surrounding web accessibility, which is really in flux right now, especially with new European laws coming out. Lainey has been involved in accessibility since the early ’90s. One of her major accomplishments is the braille on ATM machines—that was because of her advocacy. So she’ll be kicking off the entire event. It’s definitely a session to attend if you can.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also have a wide range of topics that cover everything from beginner to expert levels. Whether you’re a content creator, designer, developer, product manager, or team manager, there’s something for you. The full schedule is up now, and you can also register on the website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />I love that. Sarah, what are some of the topics you’re excited about?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Oh, there are so many that I want to stay up for all 24 hours just to catch them all. It feels like if I’m not there live, I’m missing out. But honestly, there’s so much I want to see!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Same here. As a non-developer, I’m not as interested in those more technical talks, but I’m excited for developers to hear them. I’m a content marketer, so I’m most excited about the sessions on content and design, but I plan to catch as many as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />I know, it’s hard to pick favorites. But if you can’t attend live, don’t worry—all the sessions will be available on YouTube afterward, and we’re striving to have them translated into as many languages as possible. So if anyone listening speaks another language and would like to volunteer to help with translations, that would be a great way to contribute!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />And during the live sessions, we’ll have human live captioning, so the transcripts will be accurate. We’ll also have live ASL interpretation on screen during the event. While we recognize that there are different sign languages around the world, for this event we’ll be using American Sign Language (ASL). I’ve also been busy recording all the intros for the sessions that will be on YouTube afterward, so you’ll hear my voice introducing speakers and thanking our sponsors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Wow, that’s a lot of work!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Yes, the dulcet tones of Michelle Frechette! (laughs) But seriously, it’s been a lot of fun. And speaking of which, Sarah, tell people how they can register and what they can expect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />It’s a completely free event! You just need to register ahead of time. The registration link is 2024.wpaccessibility.day/register/. It’s a big register button, so you can’t miss it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />And Bob assures us that all the links will be in the show notes for this episode, so you can find them there as well. Sarah’s wearing our official T-shirt for this year that says “Focus: It’s a Feature, Not a Bug,” which is a fun inside joke for developers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Yes, it comes from people reporting the focus outline (the box around links when tabbing) as a bug, when in fact it’s a feature for accessibility.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Exactly! Focus outlines aren’t a design flaw—they enhance the design by making it easier for people to navigate the site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />I still get that comment on almost every website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />And if you want a shirt like Sarah’s, you can get one when you register with a donation of $50 or more. All the funds go toward running the event—paying speakers, interpreters, and captioners, and covering the costs of the website and other resources.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Yes, and no one on the organizing team pockets any of the money. We do this because we love the community and accessibility, and we want to help others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />If this event had a paid staff, it would cost money to attend, but we’re all volunteers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Exactly. Any donations go toward making the event possible. And because we operate under the umbrella of a nonprofit, donations are tax-deductible. It all goes back into the event to keep it going year after year.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />October 9th and 10th is coming up fast! Ryan, what time does the event start?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />It starts at 14:45 UTC, which is 10:45 AM Eastern time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />And are all of our speakers from North America?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />No, we have speakers from 12 different countries this year, which is three more than last year. We’ve made a strong effort to branch out, and we have speakers from Europe, Africa, Asia-Pacific, Australia, Canada, South America—we’re very international this year.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />That’s awesome! I think around 25% of our speakers also identify as disabled, which I think is really cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Yes, I have all the stats. We have 37% of our speakers identifying as male, 57% as female, 7% as non-binary, and 3% as trans. Additionally, 17% of our speakers are non-white, and 23% identify as living with a disability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />And all of that information was volunteered by the speakers themselves.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />What other stats do you have for us?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Four of our speakers are first-time speakers, which is very exciting!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />That’s amazing!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />We’ll definitely need to show up and give them extra support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Exactly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />And we can ask questions, right? This is a live event.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Yes, all the sessions are live, and there will be time for Q&amp;A at the end of each talk. We’re asking our speakers to limit their talks to 30 to 45 minutes so there’s about 10 minutes for questions. There will also be breaks between sessions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />I’m going to try to stay up for all 24 hours, but we’ll see how that goes!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />All-nighters aren’t kind to us anymore!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />Exactly. Any final thoughts, Ryan?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />We’re just really excited for this year and hoping for a huge turnout. There’s no limit on registration, so if you’re interested, definitely sign up! Whether you’re new to accessibility or an expert, there’s something for everyone. You can also volunteer or donate to support the event.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />I’m super excited for this event! It’s my first time attending live, and I can’t wait to experience it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle:<br />It’s going to be great! Thanks to both of you for joining me today, and thanks to Bob Dunn for letting us take over this podcast spot to talk about WordPress Accessibility Day. We’ll see everyone on October 9th!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan:<br />Yeah!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sarah:<br />Yay!</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode of <em><strong>Do the Woo</strong></em>, <strong>Michelle Frechette</strong>, guest hosting for the first time, joins fellow <strong>WordPress Accessibility Day</strong> organizers, <strong>Sarah Kornblum</strong> and <strong>Ryan Bracey</strong>, to discuss the upcoming 24-hour event on October 9th and 10th, 2024. Together, they chat about the importance of web accessibility, the challenges of organizing a global event, and the various ways accessibility improves the user experience for everyone. </p>\n\n\n\n<p> Whether you&#8217;re a developer, designer, or content creator, this episode highlights why WordPress Accessibility Day is an essential resource for anyone in the WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Web Accessibility Benefits Everyone</strong>: The hosts emphasize that web accessibility is not just about helping people with permanent disabilities but improves the experience for all users. Features like better contrast, structured navigation, and user-friendly designs make websites easier to use for everyone, including those with temporary or situational impairments.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Small Changes Can Make a Big Difference</strong>: Simple adjustments, both in physical spaces and on the web, like curb cuts or focus outlines, improve access for a wider audience. Accessibility features benefit all users, not just those with specific disabilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>WordPress Accessibility Day is Global</strong>: The event has speakers from 12 different countries, showcasing diverse perspectives on accessibility from around the world. This international focus enhances the inclusivity of the event and the information shared.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>It’s a Free Event with a Wide Range of Topics</strong>: WordPress Accessibility Day covers accessibility for all levels—from beginners to experts. There are sessions tailored for content creators, designers, developers, and team leaders, making it a valuable resource for anyone in the WordPress community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Inclusivity Goes Beyond Design</strong>: Beyond aesthetics, accessibility is about creating websites and digital experiences that everyone can navigate and use. Good design doesn&#8217;t compromise accessibility—it enhances it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Live and Accessible</strong>: All sessions at WPAccessibility Day will feature live human captioning, live ASL interpretation, and will be made available on YouTube afterward with translations in multiple languages, ensuring the event is accessible to as many people as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Opportunities to Get Involved</strong>: Listeners can volunteer, help with translations, or donate to support the event. This community-driven approach helps make the event free and accessible to all while ensuring that speakers, interpreters, and captioners are compensated for their work.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links to WordPress Accessibility Day</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://2024.wpaccessibility.day/\">WordPress Accessibility Day 2024</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://2024.wpaccessibility.day/\">WordPress Accessibility Day Registration</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://2024.wpaccessibility.day/schedule/\">WordPress Accessibility Day Schedule</a></strong></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Connect</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://meetmichelle.online/\">Meet Michelle</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/michelleames/\">Michelle on WordPress.org</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellefrechetteames/\">Michelle on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://secondmelody.com/\">Second Melody</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/braceomatic88/\">Ryan on WordPress.org</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-bracey-61288324/\">Ryan on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://2dogsandalaptop.com/\">Two Dogs and a Laptop</a></strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-kornblum/\">Sarah on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 02 Oct 2024 09:18:57 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"Do The Woo Community: Tips for the Anonymous Product Developers About Page\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=85197\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/tips-for-the-anonymous-product-developers-about-page/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2788:\"<p id=\"ember607\">This is a pet peeve of mine. Being a visible player in the WooCommerce (and WordPress) space, I am inundated with requests to look at stuff, connect, offer advice, all of which I&#8217;m cool with. I also keep my eye on what&#8217;s happening out there.&nbsp;Often this all happens on social media. But regardless of the quality of the product, there is one thing that bugs me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember608\"><strong>Who are you?</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember609\">This has happened a lot of times to me. And it happened again, so it&#8217;s fresh in my mind. a month or so ago. I was on X, saw a Woo plugin that I have never heard of and I clicked through to the site. Typically, I do two things. I glance at what the extension does, then I find out who created it. I look for the about page.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember610\">But as so often happens, there is nothing about the person, team or business behind it. Now I understand that a lot of developers are introverts. And sometimes writing about themselves can be challenging, but yet&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember611\">Absolutely <strong>nothing</strong>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember612\"><strong>Where is the online authenticity?</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember613\">Guess what people? I am not going to use— or buy— your product out of the blue, even if I really need it. Unless you tell me who the heck you are.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember614\">In that last example, I did a bit more investigation and in a roundabout way figured out it was the person who had originally tweeted it. But he didn&#8217;t make it easy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember615\">And it didn&#8217;t change my mind about using it. Sorry.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember616\">And not too long ago I saw a different tweet. There was no link for a handle to the plugin&#8217;s Twitter page. Lo and behold, in the description, I found who created it. Following through to the site I was kept in the dark there with little information.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember617\">I cannot say if other people are like me or not. But I can only wonder if there is some specific reason you don&#8217;t want to let me know you are behind this plugin? Do you really think I will snag it up without any proof of credibility? And I&#8217;m not talking an about page that says something like:</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember618\">We are a dedicated team of WooCommerce developers who really understand your needs and wanted to give you a solution that would make your life easier.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember619\">And that is it. Well, blah, blah, blah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"ember620\">About pages are important. Otherwise, in the whole scheme of things,&nbsp;you are just another speck of dust in the cosmic universe. So, please tell me, who are you&nbsp;. It will certainly help you and just may put a few more bucks in your pocket and build that needed trust.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:40:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.7 Beta 1\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17857\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/wordpress-6-7-beta-1/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13637:\"<p id=\"block-0eaa018b-f0fe-49ae-a80b-762dd1f69d27\">WordPress 6.7 Beta 1 is ready for download and testing!</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>This beta version of the WordPress software is under development.</strong> Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites.  Instead, set up a test environment or a local site to explore the new features.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to Test WordPress 6.7 Beta 1</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>You can test Beta 1 in any of the following ways:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<table><tbody><tr><td><strong>WordPress Beta Tester Plugin</strong>                                  </td><td>Install and activate the<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/\"> WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin on a WordPress install.&nbsp;Select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Direct Download</strong></td><td>Download the<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.7-beta1.zip\"> Beta 1 version (zip)</a> and install it on a WordPress website.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Command Line (WP-CLI)</strong>                      </td><td>Use this<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/\"> WP-CLI</a> command: <code>wp core update --version=6.7-beta1</code></td></tr><tr><td><strong>WordPress Playground</strong></td><td>Use a<a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/#%7B%20%22preferredVersions%22:%20%7B%20%22php%22:%20%228.0%22,%20%22wp%22:%20%22beta%22%20%7D,%20%22features%22:%20%7B%20%22networking%22:%20true%20%7D,%20%22steps%22:%20[%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22login%22,%20%22username%22:%20%22admin%22,%20%22password%22:%20%22password%22%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wpaccessibility/a11y-theme-unit-test/master/a11y-theme-unit-test-data.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WordPress/theme-test-data/master/themeunittestdata.wordpress.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22query-monitor%22%20%7D,%20%22options%22:%20%7B%20%22activate%22:%20false%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22create-block-theme%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22debug-bar%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22health-check%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22test-reports%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22user-switching%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D%20]%20%7D\"> 6.7 Beta 1 WordPress Playground instance</a> to test the software directly in your browser. No setup required–-just click and go!</td></tr></tbody></table>\n\n\n\n<p>The scheduled final release date for WordPress 6.7 is <strong>November 12, 2024</strong>. Your help testing Beta and RC versions over the next six weeks is vital to ensuring the final release is everything it should be: stable, powerful, and intuitive.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How important is your testing?</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Testing for issues is a critical part of developing any software, and it’s a meaningful way for anyone to contribute—whether or not you have experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you encounter an issue, please share it in the<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\"> Alpha/Beta area</a> of the support forums. If you are comfortable submitting a reproducible bug report, you can do so<a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\"> via WordPress Trac</a>. You can also check your issue against a list of<a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major\"> known bugs</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Curious about testing releases in general and how to get started? Follow along with the<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/\"> testing initiatives in Make Core</a> and join the<a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/\"> #core-test channel</a> on<a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/\"> Making WordPress Slack</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.7 will include many new features that were previously only available in the Gutenberg plugin. Learn more about Gutenberg updates since WordPress 6.7 in the<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/gutenberg-new/\"> What’s New in Gutenberg</a> posts for versions <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/09/what-is-new-in-gutenberg-18-5-05-jun/\">18.5</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/20/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-6/\">18.6</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/04/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-7-03-july/\">18.7</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/17/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-8-17-july/\">18.8</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/31/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-9-31-july/\">18.9</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/14/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-0-14-august/\">19.0</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-1-28-august/\">19.1</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/12/what-is-new-in-gutenberg-19-2-11-september/\">19.2</a>, and <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/25/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-3-25-september/\">19.3</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s New in WordPress 6.7 Beta 1</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.7 Beta 1 contains over 500 enhancements and over 500 bug fixes for the editor, including more than <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&milestone=6.7&group=component&max=500&col=id&col=summary&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&col=component&col=version&order=priority\">200 tickets for WordPress 6.7 Core</a>. Here’s a glimpse of what’s coming:</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Meet the Twenty Twenty-Five theme</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Launching with WordPress 6.7, the new default theme, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/15/introducing-twenty-twenty-five/\">Twenty Twenty-Five</a>, embodies ultimate flexibility and adaptability, showcasing how WordPress empowers you to tell your story with a rich selection of patterns and styles. Inspired by glimpses of natural beauty and ancestry heritage, it evokes ideas of impermanence, the passage of time, and continuous evolution–mirroring life’s journey. Experience effortless site creation with Twenty Twenty-Five and follow its progress or report issues on <a href=\"https://github.com/wordpress/twentytwentyfive\">this GitHub repo</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Zoom Out to Compose with Patterns</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The Zoom Out view simplifies your editing experience by allowing you to create and edit at the pattern level rather than focusing on individual blocks. Easily toggle this view from the toolbar to streamline your site-building process, making it faster and more intuitive to design pages using patterns.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Media improvements&nbsp;</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Now supporting HEIC image uploads–automatically converted to JPEG for maximum compatibility–you can add high-quality images without worrying about browser support. Plus, enjoy auto-sizing for lazy-loaded images and expanded background image options at both individual and global levels, giving you greater control over your site&#8217;s visuals and performance.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Expanding Block Supports</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Several blocks now come with expanded support options, enabling even more design possibilities. Notably, the long-requested shadow support for Group blocks has been added, a big win for designers and theme developers!</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Preview Options API&nbsp;</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The latest WordPress release enhances the Preview Options in the block editor, empowering developers to customize content previews. A new API allows plugins and themes to add custom items to the preview dropdown menu, enabling users to see content in different formats or environments. This flexibility enriches the editing experience while maintaining the existing familiar Preview dropdown structure.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Refined Data Views</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The Data Views introduced in 6.5 continue to be improved. This release is focused on refining the experience with a few new features aimed at making these views more flexible for customization and more functional to use.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Manage Block Bindings Directly</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Updates to this API in 6.7 polish and open most of the underlying APIs, improving the overall user experience, and add a user interface (UI) that allows you to connect attributes with custom fields to their binding sources. This new UI makes it possible to create bindings directly in a block instead of needing to use the Code Editor. By default admin and editor users can create and modify bindings, but this can be overridden with `block_editor_settings_all or map_meta_cap` filters.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Simplified and Smarter Query Loop Block</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The Query Loop block is improved, as it now automatically inherits the query from the template by default, eliminating the need for manual configuration. This means your posts display immediately in both the editor and on the front end, streamlining the process so users can focus on content without extra configuration needed.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Edit and Control Font Size Presets</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>An enhanced Styles interface allows for greater flexibility when creating, editing, removing, and applying font size presets. You can now easily modify the presets provided by a theme or create your own custom options. A key feature is the ability to toggle fluid typography, which enables responsive font scaling with additional options for finer control over responsiveness.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">View Meta Boxes in the iframed Post Editor</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>A new split view option has been introduced that allows you to access both the editor canvas and metaboxes while editing. This change will provide a consistent WYSIWYG experience between the editor and front end views.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Template Registration API</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>With this release, developers can now more easily register custom block templates without complex filters. Streamline your development process and create custom templates with ease.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>The features included in this first beta may change before the final release of WordPress 6.7, based on what testers like you find.</strong></strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Get an overview of the<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/\"> 6.7 release cycle</a> and check the<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\"> Make WordPress Core blog</a> for<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-7/\"> 6.7-related posts</a> in the next few weeks for further details.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Vulnerability bounty doubles during Beta &amp; Release Candidate</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>The WordPress community sponsors a<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/security/2024/02/12/welcoming-2024-with-wordpress-6-5-beta-1/\"> monetary reward for reporting new, unreleased security vulnerabilities</a>. This reward doubles during the period between Beta 1 on October 1, 2024 and the final Release Candidate (RC) scheduled for November 5, 2024. Please follow responsible disclosure practices as detailed in the project’s security practices and policies outlined on the<a href=\"https://hackerone.com/wordpress\"> HackerOne page</a> and in the<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/security/\"> security white paper</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Just for you: a Beta 1 haiku</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Lines of code arise,&nbsp;<br />Testing shapes the future path,&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />WordPress grows once more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left is-style-default\"><em>Props to <em><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>annezazu</a>, </em><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbringmann/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>cbringmann</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colorful-tones/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>colorful-tones</a>,</em> <em><em><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/courane01/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>courane01</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>desrosj</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>marybaum</a>, and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/priethor/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>priethor</a></em> or reviewing and collaborating on this post!</em></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 01 Oct 2024 04:41:44 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"David Baumwald\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:92:\"WPTavern: InstaWP Announces the World’s First WordPress Online Hackathon ‘AnyoneCanWP’\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=162356\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:94:\"https://wptavern.com/instawp-announces-the-worlds-first-wordpress-online-hackathon-anyonecanwp\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2545:\"<p>InstaWP, known for its innovative one-click WordPress sandbox launcher, has launched <a href=\"https://anyonecanwp.com/\">AnyoneCanWP</a>, the world’s first online hackathon dedicated to WordPress development. Registrations are open now, and participants can submit their projects until October 26.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The hackathon will officially begin on October 11, 2024, with a <a href=\"https://streamyard.com/watch/FkyPknkrPqFi\">keynote address</a> by Joost de Valk, founder of Yoast SEO and a pivotal figure in the WordPress ecosystem. This sets the stage for an engaging competition where developers and designers can showcase their skills.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Important Dates</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Hackathon Start Date: October 11, 2024</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Submission Deadline: October 26, 2024</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Public Voting Period: October 18 – October 28, 2024</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Final Presentations and Judging: November 10, 2024</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>To participate, individuals must first <a href=\"https://anyonecanwp.com/registration/\">register</a> with an email address to receive official details and an invitation. Participants can create their projects using InstaWP’s 1-click sandbox launcher. Projects must be completed within a 15-day timeframe using only free plugins and themes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>During the public voting phase, which runs from October 18 to October 28, participants can promote their projects and engage with the community to gather votes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The hackathon jury includes WordPress celebrities, including Miriam Schwab (Head of WordPress Relations at Elementor and co-founder of Strattic), Jamie Marsland (Head of WordPress YouTube), Davinder Singh Kainth (curator of the WP Weekly newsletter), and Anne-Mieke Bovelett (Accessibility advocate and multilingual WordPress expert).</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The winner will take home $3,000, with second and third places receiving $1,000 and $500, respectively. All top ten participants will also get InstaWP credits and additional partner credits to elevate their WordPress projects and services. Plus, the top winners will receive a complimentary one-year premium account with InstaWP, unlocking a suite of advanced features and tools.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The event is sponsored by Automattic, who also provided <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/instawp-gets-seed-funding-from-automattic\">seed funding</a> to InstaWP in 2022. For more information and to register for the hackathon, interested participants can visit the official <a href=\"https://anyonecanwp.com/\">website</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 30 Sep 2024 18:34:08 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Jyolsna\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42:\"Do The Woo Community: The Do the Woo Lunch\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=85827\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:46:\"https://dothewoo.io/blog/the-do-the-woo-lunch/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2850:\"<p>For the first time, we had a invite-only lunch during the recent WordCampUS 2024. We invited our sponsors, hosts and some DTW friends. Having it during the day, and on Showcase Day, gave more opportunity to for people to fit it into their schedule. But of course, some were not able to make it as there is so much going on with meetings and other get together. But we are so happy that we were able to do it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What was absolutely amazing is that our <strong><a href=\"https://www.avalara.com/\">sponsor Avalara</a></strong> stepped up to sponsor the lunch. Oliver St. George who lives in Seattle is very familiar with Portland as he has lived there as well. So he was able to find us a room at the Spirit of 77, across from the convention center.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Avalara is an exclusive sponsor of our <a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/podcasts/scaling-enterprise-wordpress-and-open-source-software/\">Scaling Enterprise: WordPress &amp; OSS</a> and a shared sponsor of <a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/podcasts/woo-devchat/\">Woo DevChat</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So a huge thank you to <strong><a href=\"https://www.avalara.com/\">Avalara</a></strong>!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And check out some photos from the lunch. (We will be adding more soon)</p>\n\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IMG_3831.jpg?resize=1024%2C768&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85840\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IMG_3833.jpg?resize=1024%2C768&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85839\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IMG_3835.jpg?resize=1024%2C768&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85837\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IMG_3838.jpg?resize=1024%2C768&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85838\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IMG_3841.jpg?resize=1024%2C768&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85841\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IMG_6746.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85835\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IMG_6749.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85833\" />\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/IMG_6750.jpg?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85836\" />\n\n\n\n\n<p>And if you would like to see more <a href=\"https://bobwp.com/2024/09/30/my-wordcampus-2024-photo-galley/\">photos from BobWP from WordCampUS 2024, check the gallery out here.</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 30 Sep 2024 09:12:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:120:\"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #108 – Gutenberg 19.3, WordPress 6.7 – Block Themes for Agencies, WordCamp Asia\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=30291\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:85:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-108-block-themes-for-agencies/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:61363:\"<p>In this episode, Birgit Pauli-Haack and JC Palmes, engineering manager at WebDev Studios, discuss Gutenberg 19.3, WordPress 6.7 &#8211; Block Themes for Agencies, and WordCamp Asia.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Add a summary/excerpt here</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-69-gutenberg-releases-wordpress-6-0-1-the-create-block-theme/#shownotes\">Show Notes</a> / <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-108-block-themes-for-agencies/#transcript\">Transcript</a></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/\">Sandy Reed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://markuraine.com/\">Mark Uraine</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://icodeforapurpose.com\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-larger-font-size\" id=\"shownotes\"><strong>Show Notes</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">JC Palmes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-social-links is-layout-flex wp-block-social-links-is-layout-flex\"><li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-x  wp-block-social-link\"><a href=\"https://twitter.com/jpalmes\" class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\"><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">X</span></a></li>\n\n<li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-github  wp-block-social-link\"><a href=\"https://github.com/khleomix/\" class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\"><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">GitHub</span></a></li>\n\n<li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-wordpress  wp-block-social-link\"><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/khleomix/\" class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\"><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">WordPress</span></a></li>\n\n<li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-instagram  wp-block-social-link\"><a href=\"https://www.instagram.com/khleomix/\" class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\"><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">Instagram</span></a></li>\n\n<li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-facebook  wp-block-social-link\"><a href=\"https://www.facebook.com/jcpalmes/\" class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\"><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">Facebook</span></a></li>\n\n<li class=\"wp-social-link wp-social-link-linkedin  wp-block-social-link\"><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/jcmaepalmes/\" class=\"wp-block-social-link-anchor\"><span class=\"wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text\">LinkedIn</span></a></li></ul>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://khleomix.com/\">Website</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://webdevstudios.com/2024/08/26/webdevstudios-wordpress-block-themes/\">Embracing the Future: How WebDevStudios Is Leading with WordPress Block Themes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/powder/\">Powder Theme</a> by Brian Gardner</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WebDevStudios/wds-bt\">WDS-BT on GitHub</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wdsbt.wdslab.com/\">Demo Site of WDS-BT Theme</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2025/\">WordCamp Asia</a> </li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Announcements</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/09/17/how-to-build-a-multi-block-plugin/\">How to build a multi-block plugin</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>DataViews</strong>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/09/20/data-views-update-2/\">Data Views Update #2</a> was published&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1fIC4N_HVw\">Introduction to Data Views Developer Hours</a> (Developer Hours)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Part 1: <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/27/using-data-views-to-display-and-interact-with-data-in-plugins/\">Using Data Views to display and interact with data in plugins</a>&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Part 2:<a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/09/23/actions-from-data-views-adding-images-to-the-media-library/\">Actions from Data Views: Adding images to the Media Library</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>WordPress 6.7 </strong>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/\">WordPress 6.7 Beta 1</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/03/roadmap-to-6-7/\">Roadmap to 6.7</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>What&#8217;s released: </strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/create-block-theme/releases/tag/v2.5.0\">Create Block Theme plugin version 2.5</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/25/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-3-25-september/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 19.3? (25 September)</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\">Stay in Touch</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Did you like this episode? <a href=\"https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog\"><strong>Please write us a review </strong></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ping us on X (formerly known as Twitter) or send DMs with questions. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes\">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bph\">@bph</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </em></li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/\">(Click here to learn how)</a></em></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\" id=\"transcript\"><strong>Transcript</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Hello, and welcome to our 108 episode of the Gutenberg Changelog podcast. In today&#8217;s episode, we will talk about Gutenberg&#8217;s 19.3, WordPress 6.7 briefly, block themes for agencies in WordCamp Asia. I&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack curator at the Gutenberg Times, and a full-time core contributor for the WordPress Open Source project sponsored by Automattic. For the first time on the show, I have a great pleasure to introduce to you, dear listeners, JC Palmes. She&#8217;s one of the local leads of the WordCamp Asia 2025, and in her day job, JC works as the engineering manager at WebDev Studios. Welcome to the show, JC. How are you today? How&#8217;s the weather in the Philippines?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Hi, Birgit. Thank you so much for having me. It&#8217;s a real pleasure to join you on the show. The Philippines is still very warm today. Well, warmer than usual. We are supposed to have a typhoon coming up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Oh, no. Oh, no. So the Philippines is in the tropics, right? So it&#8217;s similar to Bangkok from the weather in Florida.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> More or less. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. All right. So the Philippines, I don&#8217;t know a lot about the Philippines that will change when I come over for WordCamp Asia, but the Philippines comprises of about 7,000 islands. So where do you live?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. It&#8217;s 7,641 islands to be exact. It changes on a decade to decade basis, I guess. But yeah, I am in the Panay Island in the city of Iloilo and it&#8217;s a small island, but it&#8217;s a vibrant hub for tech and innovation. Yeah. It&#8217;s not as traffic heavy as Manila, which you will experience next year. You&#8217;ll love the people here if we come to visit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Oh, I&#8217;m sure about it. Yeah. But when you say you&#8217;re active in the community, so you organized WordPress meetups in Iloilo, and you also organized or started the WordCamp Iloilo. When did this all happen?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> We organized WordPress Iloilo Meetup Group around August 2016, 2017.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> You almost at eight years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes</em>: Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Over eight years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Started our first WordCamp in 2018.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Oh, wow. Yeah. And then you had one 2019, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. We did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Did you also organize one after the pandemic?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yes, we did. We organized&#8230; Well, we had one last 2023 and opted not to do 2024 because WordCamp Asia is going to be in the Philippines and most of my local organizers here are also organizers in WordCamp Asia and volunteers as well. So it&#8217;s a lot to ask them to pay local WordCamp as well as the flagship one.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. No, I wouldn&#8217;t have thought that there would be a local one when there is a regional one, because that takes a lot of out of you as an organizer or especially a lead organizer, but also if you just going to have a team organizing role, it&#8217;s a lot of work and you don&#8217;t want to lose focus on that. Yeah. I totally get it. Yeah. So yeah, we had the last month we got together because I connected with you about two things, right? There was one was the webinar for WebDev Studios on the lunch-and-learn.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then we also discussed, I read the article by Lisa Sabin-Wilson on the website, WebDev Studio that you started to have working with Block Themes. And then when I read through the article, I found that you had created a starter theme that your agency is going to use for projects. So today I want to talk to you a little bit about it because we get a lot of questions about how agencies work with Block Themes and all that. So I just wanted to, being with the source as the engineering manager, I think you had a major role in putting that together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. WDSBT was, well, it&#8217;s kind of a brainchild between Lisa, me, and Mitch, our director of engineering, and it&#8217;s a starter theme. We stands for, of course, WebDev Studios Block Theme. And the goal really was to create a flexible block-based foundation that fully embraces modern WordPress capabilities while also allowing for highly customizable websites. When we initially started this, we started with Brian Gardner&#8217;s Powder theme for inspiration. But because I spearheaded the project, and really when I started this, I was learning about Block Themes, and as I go along, I found that instead of changing, adding into the Powder theme, we needed to make it entirely our own &#8217;cause we have a design system and we need to make sure that the theme that we are going to create aligns with that design system. So the original setup with the Powder theme didn&#8217;t really align with the vision, so it was mostly overhauled by me. So&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Tell me a little bit about the design system, because a lot of people think about design system that is not in WordPress, but maybe in Figma or in some other design tool. How are you working with that? Is that something that you now built into the Block Theme or is it separate?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> It&#8217;s built into the Block Theme. So what we did was take that design system, so the design system was created with blocks in mind. We have sort of redesigned the core blocks in a way that it would be easier for us to create the components that we mostly use in our projects and would be easily extendable based on, of course, on a project-to-project basis because every project is different, but all of the elements in a component are going to be the same. And the core blocks as is with our design is pretty solid, but we needed more. Well, clients needed more, and that is what our design system allows us to do. And by integrating that with the theme, it just makes our work with whatever design our senior UX designer, Jennifer Cooley creates and just makes things easier and faster.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm. Excellent. Excellent. So when you put this together, how long did it take you to from learning about Block Themes in zero learning to, &#8220;Okay. We have a solid foundation for our projects.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> It took me probably around two, three months. It would probably take a lot, well, it would probably be faster if I already knew the structure. And I&#8217;m saying that because I&#8217;m dyslexic, so I work with patterns and learning new things kind of takes me out of my comfort zone. But because of how Block Themes in general are structured, it&#8217;s structured enough for me to pick up the patterns right away. And it took two, three months before we are actively using it on projects. So we&#8217;ve used it on three successful projects so far, launched projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So what did you find coming from the classic theme in the agency? So what you found easy to do with or easier maybe in switching to Block Themes and what did you think was very hard?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes</em>: So what was relatively easy is the process of working with native WordPress blocks. That&#8217;s the mouthful. Again, my brain works with patterns, right? I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s going to be the same for other engineers, but that was what&#8217;s easy for me. And because of that, it kind of provided us with a solid foundation and really allowed for quick implementation of reusable design elements, which is integrated in our design system. And what was hard, of course, was transitioning from our wd_s PHP-based framework to a block-based approach. Although before it was transitioned into Block Themes already. It was a hybrid theme, but we were mostly using it for PHP based framework still, but transitioning meant rethinking of the entire development process, and that takes a while for it to click, and we are getting there. Again, as I mentioned, we&#8217;ve successfully launched three projects. One of those is a really big site and well, the last project that we launched is the first TrueBP Build where we did not really use any shortcuts, I guess.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Good. Good. Good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> And it&#8217;s also probably one of the most successful launches that we&#8217;ve had with regards to performance and page speed and all those fun stuff. It&#8217;s a site with 18,000 plus users and it got 100 performance scores on page speed and 93 on mobile, 100 on desktop, 93 on mobile, and 93 on mobile was big.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>That&#8217;s awesome. Congratulations. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Thank you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So you have a team of developers that also had a different level of familiarity with Block Themes and blocks. How did the transition work for them? What were the blocks mostly?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. So the team that I worked with at WebDevs teachers for this particular project are, well, all of the engineers that I have on WebDevs teachers are amazing developers. The theme that created this site already established in Block Themes, although didn&#8217;t have the actual experience of building one for clients. They built one personally as I did, and I worked with them closely to make sure that we learned together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Excellent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> That&#8217;s best, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>And there were a lot of gutters we had to pull in Ryan and Nick.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> You mean Ryan Welcher and Nick Diego?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Ryan Welcher. Yeah. Ryan Welcher helped us a lot and figuring things out, especially with Block Bindings, that unblocked a lot of stuff for us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Block Bindings, so it&#8217;s amazing, especially because it works so much with the meta fields and you can have your own data sources. Yeah. So what I often heard from agencies is that they don&#8217;t use core blocks, but that seems to be different in yours, in your case, that you mostly base it all on native core blocks and only have variations and primary block styles that you extend them to or with. So I think that&#8217;s a great way to leverage all the work that the developers do in core to bring those forward and you can build your sites on it.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The last question I have on that, and then I think we can move on unless you want to say something more, is so with the Block Themes, there is also your clients are now able to create their own templates or modify the templates. Is that all open to them or what&#8217;s the training about? What&#8217;s the implementation at the clients? What&#8217;s the process there to give them that freedom?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes</em>: It&#8217;s open to them, but we did add in some guard rails, particularly with what we&#8217;ve set in theme Jason, but then again, it&#8217;s WordPress, it&#8217;s open for clients this time around. We did not sort of think deeply, I guess? That&#8217;s the only word they can really think of right now. Features are with a website that is designed for clients, you&#8217;ll have to be very careful with telling them what to do, how to use this block, how to figure things out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And with Block Themes, because they&#8217;re able to just create an entire template at an entirely new header and all those stuff, we made sure that we have all of the documentation ready for them. Documentation that is part of WordPress, we just give them the link to that because you don&#8217;t have to change it out. It&#8217;s all there for them to read. We fully document any custom block that we create. And also all of the custom blocks that we do are also just core blocks. We opted to always do core blocks first if it&#8217;s doable, and just go the other route if not. But so far we were able to do everything just using core blocks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Core blocks. Yeah. Wonderful. Excellent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> And clients showing them how to use the website and with Block Themes, we thought was going to be hard. It wasn&#8217;t it. They were very happy with just having that freedom and being that it&#8217;s intuitive enough for them to just go in and add in their content. It&#8217;s just amazing to see.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. So when you have one of these large projects, how many block patterns do you&#8230; What&#8217;s the good number that you use there? Is it 25 or is it 50 or is it&#8230; Yeah. I heard other people have 58 patterns in there, or 58 new blocks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Oh wow. That&#8217;s a lot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palme</em>s: Because we are leveraging core blocks, we are actively using them for everything. We have variations. So BT, WSBT, we can add in variations with just a couple lines of code and eight variations that variations and block variations. You don&#8217;t really need to create that many patterns or blocks because then they&#8217;ll be able to just use it. But of course, if there&#8217;s a sub layout, we create a pattern for that, a template pattern so that they can just add that in a page and then just change things around. I&#8217;m not exactly sure how many patterns we did for this site. I know that it&#8217;s not 50 plus, it&#8217;s less than that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Okay. All right. Okay. So if listeners are interested in learning from you, and I know developers like to look at code and theme developers even more, especially your theme JSON and how you set up all the assets. And so your theme is available on GitHub, that&#8217;s public record, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It&#8217;s in a public record.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> It is public now. It was silently public for the past few months, and then we opened it up publicly release this post when we set out version 1.0, and it&#8217;s that to go up to 1.5 by this week with some modifications with the versioning cache buster, and then fix this particularly to the mobile menu because that needs a lot of love.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: It does. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Especially when you have things that are you want on a desktop, but you don&#8217;t want them on the mobile and you want to kind of stack things differently in a different order. It&#8217;s really hard to implement that. Yeah. Totally get it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. So I will show in the show notes if that&#8217;s okay with you, the GitHub repo for the WDS-BT theme. Well, maybe you could come up with a cuter name.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> We just really call it BT.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah, of course. Block Themes, I get it. Yeah. And it&#8217;s the acronym from your company, WebDev Studio.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Totally get it. I will share that. And I also will share, again, the link to the article that Lisa Wilson put together in the show notes so you can kind of look through it to your listeners. But I find it very interesting to talk to you about that. So thank you for sharing all your insights on that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>JC Palmes: Thank you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Announcements</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So dear listeners, we have a few announcements for you, and it&#8217;s mostly about what&#8217;s published. So there&#8217;s a data views update number two, has been published on the design make blog with new updates on cam-sounds like what are new features on the data views. There&#8217;s some great work being done there. You can catch up with that. So it was the primary filter visibility has been changed. Then you can reorder table columns and view options. So you can hide columns, a feature that was available in the WP admin, but not always all columns and not always all columns are in there, so you can get them in and out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then also have a featured image and the title field in the display for pages. And then you can pin columns and rows. And the advanced filtering is really great. You can have and and/or filtering categories in tag or is any out of particular list of tags. So when you&#8217;re looking at the 2,000 or 20,000 blog posts, you can narrow down the filtering quite a bit in the admin section there. So check it out, I share it in the show notes. Then there&#8217;s two more posts on the developer blog. So if you went to block development more on the beginner side, there&#8217;s an article on how to build a multi block plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So with the create-block scaffolding tool, we had a similar article about two months ago, but this is a little bit of a different approach. So you get more variations on how you can approach that, and it&#8217;s really great because it gets you step by step through that tutorial. Troy Chaplin is a new writer on the developer blog, and he is from Ottawa, Canada and is writing on the second blog now&#8230; blog post. And the second blog post was actually the second part of a series on data views on how you as a plugin developer can use it for your plugin in the admin section. So the first part came out a month ago, like using data views to display and interact with data in plugins. And then the second one is called actions from data views. So how to add the image that you bring in from the data into a media library.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s kind of an app pretty much that you can build there. It&#8217;s a React app and you get through in the tutorial from beginning to end. So it&#8217;s a really interesting series of blog posts. And with that, there was a data views developer hours where both JuanMa Garrido wrote the two articles that I just mentioned. But then there was also Nick Diego was in the developer hours, and Andre Manero who&#8217;s one of the developers who put this all together. And the recording I will also share in the show notes. And the last announcement&#8230; it&#8217;s not the last announcement, the second last announcement is you take it&#8217;s about WordCamp Asia.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordCamp Asia</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Oh, yeah, right. Okay. WordCamp Asia. So the next batch of tickets for WordCamp Asia 2025 will be released on October 3 at 12:00 PM Philippine time. I&#8217;m not sure what that is in UTC. I&#8217;m really bad with time zones.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Oh, it&#8217;s kind of earlier in the day. It&#8217;s in the morning. Yeah. So October 3rd in the morning is the ticket release. Yes. Yeah. Awesome.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> With those who don&#8217;t know WordCamp Asia 2025 will be held at the PICC in Manila Philippines from February 20 to 2022&#8230; No, 20 to 22, 2025. So yeah, be sure to mark your calendars and secure your tickets as soon as they&#8217;re available. Maybe we can talk, if you see me just say hi.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. And I just saw on Twitter a series from Sushi about the photos of the walkthrough of the organizing team in Manila. So it was, if you follow him on Twitter, I can share some links that as well in the show notes. So you can see how grand this convention center is where the conference will be held. So I&#8217;m really looking forward to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. They&#8217;re doing that today. I did fly out because, well, I need to fly again in the next couple of weeks. But then again, also I do have one more thing with WordCamp Asia 2025, you&#8217;re also still looking for sponsors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. So if you or your company are interested in supporting the event, feel free to reach out. I&#8217;d love to discuss how you can get involved.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. And I&#8217;ll link the call for sponsors page in the show notes so you can check it out what the options are for different levels and all that and what&#8217;s all included into the sponsor packages. I think that helps. No, that was really good. Thank you. Well, that&#8217;s a few months to go. So some people are really late in their decisions and it&#8217;s the next year, so their budget is not out yet. So I can understand that some people are a little bit hesitant to get this going. So the speaker is also, you got a lot of submissions I heard for speakers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> A lot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Was it more than last year?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>I haven&#8217;t checked yet. So I&#8217;m mentoring sponsors, operations and the technology team. Global leads are sponsoring other teams. And then one of the local leads as well, Andrew is he is mentoring venue, which takes a lot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Oh, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> So we all have our hands full. We are getting there. We have an amazing set of organizers as usual, and I can&#8217;t wait to see them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. I&#8217;m so grateful that everybody puts things together. And the two WordCamps Asia that I&#8230; &#8217;23 and &#8217;24 were just amazing. And I had a great time and it was great to talk to everybody there. And they were also open. And yeah, I&#8217;ve made a lot of new friends, so happy to also hopefully get there again next year.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>You should. It&#8217;s in my country.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. And if I come, I&#8217;ll spend a few days. So my approach is always I come in early, maybe a week or four days early, get over the jet lag, get the lay of the land. So I don&#8217;t know. So when I want to meet people. I know where the restaurants are, I know where the venue is, but I also get to do some sightseeing in a place where I haven&#8217;t been. So if it&#8217;s the first time&#8230; Yeah. I&#8217;m really looking forward to exploring Manila the few days that I have beforehand. I haven&#8217;t booked the flight yet. I need to wait for the okay. Of course, I don&#8217;t see why not. We&#8217;ll see how that goes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> That would be nice. Amazing. I mean, Manila is an amazing city to explore.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I&#8217;m looking forward to that.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s Released &#8211; WordPress 6.7 Beta 1 &#8211; Create Block Theme</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So next week, WordPress 6.7 Beta 1 is going to come out in October. On Thursday, October 1st, no Tuesday, sorry, on Tuesday, October 1st. And if you want to refresh what&#8217;s on the docket, I&#8217;ll share the link to the roadmap from 6.7 that Anne McCarthy put out. But I&#8217;m also hoping that by then after that, she also publishes a little bit more updated, because I know there is some change in the Zoom out feature, which I really love and I know the best part that I love will get in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What was a little bit harder was to figure out how the editing works when you edit what you zoom out on your site for design. And if you want to contribute and have some time and want to learn at the same time, keep an eye out for that. The Make test team is about to publish with the beta, the help to test WordPress 6.7 post. It&#8217;s going to be a long one, but you can pick the features that you want to learn about or you want to test about, and the more you test, the better the version becomes. So that&#8217;s a big appeal to help us testing the beta versions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. For sure. I do want to touch on &#8217;cause you&#8217;ve already mentioned some of the big updates, right? I think it&#8217;s also worth mentioning some of the smaller fixes that don&#8217;t always get a lot of attention, but really make a big difference in day-to-day use. There are a few things that I really love personally and versus there&#8217;s the great Block theme plugin that now allows you to, no, they rename on assets when saving or exporting, and it&#8217;s a small but neat update, but that makes asset management easier for developers working with custom fonts. And we work with custom fonts a lot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> So fonts are now copied directly to the local theme folder, which is such a time saver when dealing with multiple customizations. One other update that I think is worth mentioning is removal of the categories hidden tag.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I haven&#8217;t mentioned anything about the&#8230; So when we are talking about now about the create Block Theme plugin new version that was released a week ago, and are you using in your Block Theme building process, the grade Block Theme plugin? How do you use that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> We are. So it&#8217;s integrated in WDEVS BT, we are able to create&#8230; Well, this scaffold new blocks using a template that we have set in BT and leveraging the create-block script. So we have that added in our package JSON, and when our developers create a new block, we just run the script and it will scaffold all the files they need as part of the theme and they can just start creating a new block right away. It works right away, right away, right away. Yeah. It works. Once you run the script, it takes the template that we&#8217;ve set and then scaffold is a block and you have a very simple block showing up right away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Oh, okay. So that&#8217;s the create-block script. And that&#8217;s where probably Ryan came in because he&#8217;s a specialist in the…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Yeah. That one.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> And also we are&#8230; So this is an internal thing that we do with the create blocks plugin where we use it for a versioning thing or when we are doing patterns, changing patterns, and editing patterns and grading patterns. And it&#8217;s still a work in progress of course, but we are actively using that plugin and also the script and amazing plugins.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. So the create block theme, you create the patterns in the editor and then you…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Okay. So you export them through the create block theme plugin methods into the…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yes, part of. So the create-block theme plugin right now does not really take patterns, but we somehow are finding a way to override that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Yeah. The newest version of the create block theme plugin had a few things, and you mentioned one that was the rename of the font assets, when the theme is saved when exported, there&#8217;s also an attempt to try to add the synced patterns to the theme on save.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> That one I have not tested yet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. It hasn&#8217;t been out long enough probably.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Oh, okay. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It just came out last week. Yeah. So that is definitely something to test for theme developers and that were really waiting for that to happen. And then the remove categories hidden, you wanted to mention that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. So removing categories hidden from the default pattern header, and it&#8217;s a very subtle fix, right? But it just cleans up the UI, making it easier to manage and organize patterns, especially when you have more than 50 plus patterns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> So if you want to keep things tidy, you have to organize.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Yeah. And then another new feature is that it wraps the main tag around the Query Loop instead of the post content. It&#8217;s necessary because, so the skip to content kind of goes to the Query Loop instead of the full page kind of thing. So that has solved quite a few accessibility items there. And then the last one I wanted to mention is, oh yeah, that the fonts are copied and you mentioned it as well in the local theme folder. When you use a different font for a style variation, it automatically is downloaded there and added to the theme as its folder. Yeah. Cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Yeah. I actually have two more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Go ahead.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. So you&#8217;ve mentioned the main tag that&#8217;s also one of the things, and I think that just makes it, that&#8217;s an accessibility thing that we really need to improve on and that will help ensure better semantic HTML and accessibility. And also there&#8217;s some behind the scenes cleanups that I really like and it&#8217;s removing unused styles and unused style rules in data views, and it just makes for a leaner code base and better performance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Excellent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Also, the swapping of the pre-published check buttons was another nice tweak because I&#8217;m visual when I&#8217;m coding, so if something changes, I notice right away because dyslexic. I work in patterns. So if one thing changes and I think that is a really good change, I check it out and see how and why that is like one of the&#8230; it&#8217;s one of my top, it just makes it leaner and easier for me to work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I&#8217;m glad. Yeah. No. I find it very helpful to have this plugin and in combination with the site editor and then you make some changes there and it gets better and better even goes a little bit further than core, especially with the sync patterns for themes. I think that&#8217;s a little bit of a step forward that is outside of core because core is not yet ready for that and to get it into hands of theme developers to test it out and see how does it work and how good does it fit in into the development process. Yeah. So that&#8217;s our create Block Theme plugin update, and now we come from the big one, that&#8217;s the Gutenberg 19.3 plugin release.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gutenberg 19.3</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The release had about 165 PRs following 52 contributors, including 7 first-time contributors. Kai Hao was the release lead and he published a release post that I certainly will share with you in the show notes.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Enhancements<strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So there are a few enhancements that we&#8217;re going to talk about. There are also new API or one new API. I&#8217;m sorry that my voice is a little horsey. I come from a week of nasty cold and I&#8217;m glad that we can connect today. Yeah. So I&#8217;m happy that you also can take over some of the things JC with me. Okay.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the first enhancement is actually not an enhancement. It&#8217;s kind of an update on the minimum PHP requirement for the create block script, which is 7.2. You cannot be on an older PHP version anymore. And using that script to create blocks, sometimes they need to point out that thing. So in the restore, there&#8217;s a restore, the move to trash button disappeared in the document settings and people were looking for it. They found them in the three.menu, but they needed it more prominent. So it&#8217;s coming back.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Thank you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So the inspector controls, so when the developer talks about inspector controls, they talk about the sidebar on the block editor and now they changed that when for custom blocks, they didn’t always have the block name in there to highlight that out. So that has changed. It was actually a bug I would think, because you want the name of the custom block name also in the inspector control. So that has been rectified and for patterns you can now change. It&#8217;s not for the patterns, it&#8217;s for when you go to add a page, your editor always comes out with a set of patterns that are available and you don&#8217;t want them. Now there is a user preference that you can switch on or toggle on and off in your preference sidebar or tool. So the modal, you can disable that modal and not have the selection in front of you. It took a while, but there was definitely something they listen to users to have that. Same with a move to trash button. The developers always, not always, but often listen to users when there is a strong emotion coming there away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. That&#8217;s amazing. I have strong emotions with that trash button as well. Having that not there is just, it&#8217;s making things off for me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. It&#8217;s kind of disconcerting. I want to have just trash it. Where is it? Yeah.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Components</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So in the components, it&#8217;s not a public component yet, but the developers are working on a tabs block component or a tabs component, and that is actually used throughout the editor, but it&#8217;s not available yet for blocks. It&#8217;s not public yet, but you can definitely look at the PR and see how it works so you can prepare yourself and they just improve the animation and the related utilities to make it to prepare for coming out of experimentation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Tabs block would be amazing. We&#8217;ve had to grade our own custom tabs block just because it&#8217;s not available and having that as one of the core blocks would be really awesome.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Mm-hmm. Yeah. Same with the accordion block, I think there&#8217;s someone working on that as well. I saw some prototypes how that works. But yeah, it&#8217;s not going to come. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s going to come for 6.7 because they&#8217;re still in experimentation and we have what? Four days to go. Three days to go for beta, so I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s coming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. Just three days.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Block Library</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. So what else? The block library had some changes, especially here now for the image block. I think there was…</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Oh, yeah. That one. Sorry. Yeah, with dropping multiple&#8230; not just multiple images, right? So you are now able to drop any kind of media and it&#8217;ll automatically translate to whatever that is. If it&#8217;s a video, it&#8217;ll be an actual video and images. It&#8217;s a time saver.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm. Yeah. It automatically&#8230; So if it&#8217;s all images automatically creates a gallery block.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Gallery. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. I tested it quite a bit and you need to be a little bit&#8230; When you drag and drop, you need to be quite precise with your mouse.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> With that. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. To get it next to the image that&#8217;s already there to create a gallery out of two images, but it&#8217;s just a little practice that you need. And then it&#8217;s really saving so much time to upload and download and gallery block and oh, I changed my mind. I don&#8217;t want one image, I want two images. So now I need to remove the image and put a gallery block in and yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Yeah. It&#8217;s just a time saver really.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Absolutely. Especially when you&#8217;re someone who changed their mind often.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Birgit Pauli-Haack: And what&#8217;s also there now is for the gallery list block to have now added a drop-down for the taxonomies so you can really select all the categories that you want to have in there. And then there were quite a few enhancements that are coming under the umbrella of a zoom out feature.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Zoom Out</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So the zoom out mode is officially out of experiment and it&#8217;s now available to all users. And this mode allows you to zoom out, to edit, or create at the pattern level over granular block editing. So you&#8217;ll see it when you want to add a pattern to a site, an existing site kind of zooms out so you see more of your page and then you get the insert outside of that, so where you can insert it without getting into other container blocks kind of thing. Yeah. So it&#8217;s actually really neat to see how a pattern would change the content of your page in relation to the other patterns or other page content that&#8217;s there. So it&#8217;s a really interesting way of helping you with the design of things. Have you experienced that on the Gutenberg plugin level yet?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Works not so much yet. Yeah. But that is one of the things that I want to play with this week. I just didn&#8217;t have the time to do that last week, but with all of this new things, so I just want to play around with it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Well, when you say play, it&#8217;s testing, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> It&#8217;s testing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It&#8217;s testing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Well, in my brain it&#8217;s still playing love to code. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. Mine too. Yeah. It&#8217;s kind of, &#8220;Oh, I&#8217;m going to play around with that.&#8221; But it&#8217;s more like, &#8220;Yeah. We need to test it.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Testing, creating, and all that fun stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Thinking about use cases, thinking about how to break it because that&#8217;s-</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Exactly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> &#8230; yeah. And last month ago, or maybe three weeks ago, I got a kudos from a co-worker who said, &#8220;Well, you always find creative ways to break things.&#8221; It was my superpower, you know?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Super power.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah., the zoom out toggle that is in the header section of the editor, there is a zoom out toggle. So you can say, okay, give me 50% of the view or give me the 100% that&#8217;s next to the preview tab. It might not stay there, but if you just want to kind of test it a bit and you don&#8217;t know, and I don&#8217;t always know when I would trigger that there&#8217;s an automation when all of a sudden it zooms out. But if you want to be in control of it, there&#8217;s a little toggle switch in the editor header and then you drag and drop your patterns into the zoom out mode. And then you also see of course everything in the list view and have the top level section in the zoom out mode and the list view is open. You only see the top sections of your site.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Block Editor<strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s really interesting. So the block editor got a few things. So this release also had a few other drag and drops, not only the image or the pattern, but you also can drag and drop a mix of audio and image blocks into the canvas and it will automatically create those individual blocks. That&#8217;s what you mentioned earlier as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. And then there is the link editing. That&#8217;s a small fix, but it&#8217;s something that was really missing was to create a link for the phone number. So if there&#8217;s a phone number or a recognizable phone number in your content, it will automatically create the link for it. So when you watch it on or look at it in mobile, you get the button-</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> You&#8217;ll be able to click on it. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> &#8230; call button. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yes. &#8216;Cause adding that is going to be really awesome. It&#8217;s missing, and we&#8217;ve been adding that for some clients who needed that. So having that automatically added is just a nice small thing to have.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Post Editor</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Absolutely. So there is a new preference modal in the new media section.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> That I didn&#8217;t know about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. I didn&#8217;t know about it either. Yeah. So this preference for the media section is to switch on client-side media processing. So it doesn&#8217;t all have to go to server sooner or later it will go to the server, but you can do it actually in the browser window. And then you have a lot more options open for dealing with media. And it&#8217;s the first part of the client-side media processing by Pascal Birchler. He had a featured plugin where he tested all that out and now this one comes into core. That&#8217;s really great. I&#8217;m really happy about that. So it&#8217;s definitely for mobile, also interesting for mobile users because they can&#8217;t wait till everything is done on the server because if you have a slow connection, you want it still to be processed without having to wait for all the back and forth there. So that&#8217;s really cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> I just let this pre-upload compression and having that as a toggle. And then, yeah, the approval step is sometimes when media is optimized, it just does not always look the way that we want it to look. So having that approval step is nice to have.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: So in the page editor, you can now double-click on the template part. So when you edit a page and you click into the template parts, it&#8217;s going to sometimes tell you this is a template part, you can&#8217;t edit that or go to the edit template part kind of screen. And now with double-click, you can switch over to template part editing. So it&#8217;s much faster now to, and if you know what you&#8217;re doing, it&#8217;s definitely helpful to have that there. I was always trying to do that with a double-click. I don&#8217;t know why, but it was kind of really-</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Oh, same. I do that too. I like this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So when you publish a post in the pre-publish section there, there is a warning in a notification that you might have pictures and other from a third place so that the images are not on your site and they&#8217;re linking out to either Google or some other place. And the feature offers you to upload all the images to your own media library so you can really have your&#8230; You&#8217;re not surprised when all of a sudden images go away from the third party.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> That is a very helpful fix. We&#8217;ve had issues with that where with patterns, when you copy a pattern, it will try to, it&#8217;ll look for images in your local, right? And you don&#8217;t always know that it&#8217;s referencing your local, because when you look at the site and it&#8217;s uploaded on an environment, you see that images are there and it&#8217;s only because it&#8217;s referencing local images and you are viewing the site in your computer. So you see that, but other people would not know. So having that would be a lifesaver.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>And it was in the section there, but very rarely did it pop up but now&#8230; and it was only working for gallery blocks and image blocks. But if you had an image from a third party in a media text block or in a cover block, it wouldn&#8217;t come over. It wouldn&#8217;t recognize it in that, and now it does. So it&#8217;s kind of expanding that feature to other block types. And I experienced that when I was working. I&#8217;m working on a tutorial on how to use Playground for a theme demo site so you don&#8217;t have to spin up your own site and you can get everybody their own link to Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I was trying to figure out how is the content or what do I have to do with the content? And I used a theme that had some patterns with the local assets, with the theme local assets, and I needed to get those into the media library. So when I import it to Playground, it knows, okay, I have those images because it wouldn&#8217;t go back to the theme assets for that. So it was really interesting to figure that out, and this was really helpful to at least get the marker, but it didn&#8217;t do it for the cover and the media text blocks. So seeing that here in the new release is really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah. It&#8217;s going to be very helpful that that is missing for those blocks. And we&#8217;ve been using those blocks quite extensively.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> They&#8217;re wonderful blocks to use. Yeah. They make a really great design all the time. So the next thing is also about the pre-publish screen, but it kind of switch the cancel the publish button so that the publish button is always under the mouse. So when you hit the publish first and then the next one, it had the cancel button there. So people sometimes cancel their publishing, although they wanted to publish, so now you can just keep your mouse there and have the second publish there as well. That&#8217;s a very good and nice quality of life kind of feature, but obviously somebody needed to think of it to do that. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes</em>: That&#8217;s one of the things that I mentioned earlier and one of my favorite bits, so just swapping that is just, it just reduces unnecessary cursor movement and improves the user experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Block Bindings</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Oh, yeah. So totally. Then is the block bindings, your new favorite feature has an update. So what the feature does not do yet is give you an interface to actually create the post meta data or metafields, but now it uses the label that you put in your registration for the block bindings and not the variable name, which is definitely an improvement for that, especially for users who are not developers who always kind of little put back when they&#8217;re not reading normal words, but words with underscores in it and all that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> I just love block bindings and I&#8217;ll always be on the lookout for whatever is new that&#8217;s going to come into it. We&#8217;ve been using that and learning more about how it works and just again, playing around with it and trying to make it do things that it&#8217;s not doing yet with core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Which part? What are those?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes: </em>Well, we&#8217;ve kind of packed it around to be able to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I love that when you say, &#8220;Oh, we hacked around it.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Just allowing to show meta that it&#8217;s not supposed to&#8230; Well, it&#8217;s not that it&#8217;s not supposed to show it&#8217;s always there, right? It&#8217;s just not ready yet. But it&#8217;s a play around between checking on the database and then checking things on. It&#8217;s a lot of experimentation in order to get what it natively does not do what we needed it to do for the project that we were working on before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So you were ahead of your time with your needs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Well, we had to, right? The client work that would really&#8230; We can&#8217;t really wait for when a feature that we need is going to come out and WordPress the way it is. And with all the things ready for us to just change, I guess. No, not change, build on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. I heard from a few extenders that&#8217;s plugin developers, theme developers, agency developers that they feel, oh, it&#8217;s time that more blocks are actually&#8230; Because you can only do block bindings for four blocks. One is the paragraph block, the image block, the button block, and the headings block, but all the other blocks, you cannot do a list block with things here and all that. So yeah, it definitely is time to expand the range of blocks that can hold bindings to metadata, definitely. And I know that the team knows that they&#8217;re definitely working on it. I&#8217;m scrolling through things.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Experiments <strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. There is one, speaking of block bindings under the experiments is now bringing the UI to the site editor to edit the values for the metadata or the block bindings. So you can do that in your&#8230; and they built the rest API endpoints for that so they can go back to the server and come back and have it all saved. So that&#8217;s a really good&#8230; It&#8217;s an experiment. You have to enable it through the experiments page. But yeah, test it out. Developers would love your feedback on it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Oh yeah, we&#8217;ve kind of done the same thing, but it&#8217;s not visible to users. It&#8217;s more in the code where we are able to change things around. But then again, it&#8217;s having that as a visual changeable thing. It&#8217;s just going to be a time saver.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Absolutely. Absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Documentation</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>What I also want to point out, for those who are keen on learning more about the data views, the documentation has been updated, and especially the storybook has now better styles for the combined fields stories and also allows more layout for the combined fields storybook. So definitely an enhancement for those who want to look up the documentation for the data of use. And the stories for that storybook is kind of a component, is a documentation style to have each single component outside of the context of the block editor to what are the properties and how does it behave when you change settings just alone for that component.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it&#8217;s a really great way to learn about all the WordPress components and not a whole lot of people know about it. But that will change because the design system that the design team is working on will be also based probably on storybook because for the admin, if you ever want the data views to be part of the WordPress WPAdmin, there is a whole lot of work to be done to cement the design system about every single screen and all that. So they&#8217;re working on that for the color scheme and the typography and all that to make it more seamless. And I think somebody did a test or an audit on all the color strings that are in the WP-Admin sections. And I think she found 68 different colors. So it&#8217;s all kind of different gray tones. It&#8217;s different. Yeah, blue tones, different dark blue tones. And I was really amazing. And they definitely is not increasing the standardization when you have so many colors and a thing too about the design system-</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> So it could be a nice thing to have that revamped on and just be able to make it more visible to everyone &#8217;cause it&#8217;s a very helpful way to when you&#8217;re creating components and creating blocks.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Code Quality</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So the next two items I think are more for the developers because they are code quality related. The editor uses hooks instead of higher order components in the block manager. So that&#8217;s interesting for contributors. And then the data view fields store is, and the actions are moving from the editor package into the fields package. So if you have already done some exploration on the data views and data view fields, you need to make a note of that, that the package has changed a bit. I think the Gutenberg developers are very good and do the warnings in the console. So you probably see that when you use them. All right. So that&#8217;s the Gutenberg Changelog for Gutenberg plugin 19.3 and my voice is a bit fading, so I&#8217;m really happy that you walked this through with me. JC, it was wonderful to have you. We are coming to the end of the site, so if people want to get in touch with you, what is a good place for them to reach you? WP Slack or is it more on the social webs?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> I&#8217;m always in Slack and I&#8217;m always on Facebook and Instagram as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Okay. Yeah. So I will share the links in the show notes as well too. So you can get in touch with JC Palmes if you have questions about WordCamp Asia or the Block Theme that they&#8217;re working on. It was wonderful that you have been on the show. Thank you so much. And as always, dear listeners, the show notes will be published on <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">gutenbergtimes.com/podcast</a>. This is episode 108, and if you have questions and suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. That&#8217;s <a href=\"mailto:changelog@utenbergtimes.com\">changelog@utenbergtimes.com</a>. All right. Well, thank you everybody and thank you, JC.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Thanks so much for having me, Birgit. It&#8217;s been a great conversation and I really enjoyed diving into all these updates with you. This is also my first podcast, by the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Oh, right. Oh, we got you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> Yeah, amazing. I love it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. So until the next time then if I may, I will ask you to come to the show again, maybe after WordCamp Asia and we talk about our adventure in Manila, how about that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>JC Palmes:</em> I love that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> All right. Well, thank you so much. And do you have a wonderful weekend or rest of the evening for you and see you all and hear you all, dear listeners, in two weeks. Thanks again. Bye-bye.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 30 Sep 2024 09:07:17 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:49;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26:\"Matt: On with Theo / T3.gg\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=127096\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:25:\"https://ma.tt/2024/09/t3/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2040:\"<p>On Thursday, a prominent developer, YouTuber, Twitch streamer, and journalist posted a video titled <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoTToRfM3iA\">This might be the end of WordPress</a>. <em>It was very harsh</em>. In that video you&#8217;ll hear him say about me, &#8220;he&#8217;s a chronic hater&#8221; (7:55), &#8220;seems like he&#8217;s been a pretty petty bastard for a long time now&#8221; (10:22), &#8220;I hate this shit, I hate when people are assholes and they get away with it because I&#8217;m doing it for the greater good, the fake nice guy shit. I&#8217;ll take an asshole over a fake nice guy any day, people whose whole aesthetic is being nice, I hated it.&#8221; (11:25), &#8220;Honestly I&#8217;d rather the license just be explicit about it than this weird reality of &#8216;If you get popular enough you can still use it but the guy who made WordPress is going to be an asshole to you.&#8217; That seems much worse than most open source models.&#8221; (14:39)&#8230; it goes on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ouch!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, one of my colleagues <a href=\"https://bt.hn/\">Batuhan</a> is a follower of <a href=\"https://x.com/t3dotgg\">Theo&#8217;s</a> and suggested I engage with him. It turns out we were both in San Francisco, and he was game for a livestreamed, no-conditions interview at his studio. I believe discussion is the best way to resolve conflict, that&#8217;s why my door is open to Lee Wittlinger, Heather Brunner, <a href=\"https://x.com/photomatt/status/1839134832846327894\">Brian Gardner</a>, or any WP Engine or Silver Lake representative who wants to talk to resolve things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Saturday afternoon I went to Theo&#8217;s studio, we had a vigorous <em>two hour</em> debate and discussion with some real-time chat polling that also changed my mind on a few things, and his, too. I left feeling like I had a new friend. &#xfe0f;And met some awesome cats. Check out the video.</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/@t3dotgg\"></a> </p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sun, 29 Sep 2024 20:35:11 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}s:4:\"type\";i:128;s:7:\"headers\";O:42:\"Requests_Utility_CaseInsensitiveDictionary\":1:{s:7:\"\0*\0data\";a:9:{s:6:\"server\";s:5:\"nginx\";s:4:\"date\";s:29:\"Wed, 16 Oct 2024 17:32:36 GMT\";s:12:\"content-type\";s:8:\"text/xml\";s:13:\"last-modified\";s:29:\"Wed, 16 Oct 2024 17:15:30 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